Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 17th, 2007

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Chair, the other thing I'm struggling with is the third paragraph, which says “the opposition members of the committee”. It is my understanding that once a report is passed, it becomes the work of the committee, not necessarily any particular group of members on the committee.

I know it wasn't a unanimous report, and you pointed that out in the first paragraph--appropriately, I think--but I think that third paragraph should say, “The committee disagreed with the fifth recommendation and called on the government to reject it. The committee also called on the government to immediately fill the remaining board vacancies on the IRB.” Then there would be a final statement: “The committee also noted that this situation constituted a crisis at the IRB.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Did I go to you, Omar? Okay, you're finished.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I tend to agree with what I'm hearing. Stating in the press release, “The opposition members of the committee disagree”.... I mean, if you look on this side, you'll see there are more opposition members, so it's the will of this committee—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, what I was trying to do, in all fairness, was reflect the views of both instead of the overall committee. That's what I was trying to do.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Can I finish? I thank you.

If you want to put that sentence in, you can say that the members of the committee recommended that the fifth recommendation take place, while the government members disagreed. You can have it that way if you want to put it in this.

Regarding the second paragraph, again, I'm not sure if that's the will of the committee or if this is where we're going. This is a press release that should be done from the committee versus a press release that reflects the wishes of the department.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Or any one party.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, the department isn't...okay.

Mr. Batters.

[Dave Batters, Conservative, Palliser, SK]

I find myself agreeing with Mr. Karygiannis and Mr. Siksay. If he wants to indicate that the committee.... Instead of opening the statement with “The opposition members”, Mr. Karygiannis said that he'd be fine with putting in “but the government members of the committee disagreed”. That would meet our needs.

It first talks about the committee as a whole, and it indicates who dissented. Otherwise, you have the vote--seven to four. I guess people could perhaps figure out who dissented, but it leaves it unclear.

So I'd like to respectfully agree with my colleague Mr. Karygiannis and have it added in that the government members of the committee disagreed. It would suffice for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

It seems fair enough. Thank you, Mr. Karygiannis.

Who's next? Mr. Wilson.

[Blair Wilson, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the way the committee process works, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it's the will of the committee to decide on motions that are going to be passed. I think this press release should reflect the work of the committee. Even putting in “by a vote of 7-4” is not, I think, necessary. It could just state that “The Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration passed a motion”, and this is what we agreed to as a majority. To start talking about opposition parties or government parties, I think, limits the leverage that the committee has as a whole to say that we're working together collectively, all parties, all members, and this is what we've decided to pursue.

So especially in a news release that talks about politicization of a process, I would try to make this as non-partisan and as member-based as possible.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay.

Bill...Mr. Siksay. I keep forgetting I'm not in camera anymore.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Chair, I just want to be clear. I agree with Mr. Wilson that this should be a report on the work of the committee that the committee takes ownership of, something that's passed and approved by the committee. I agree with him that we should remove that reference to the vote of seven to four, and the phrase “the opposition members of the committee” in the third paragraph. Also, I would oppose adding that the government members opposed, or whatever.

I think it should be generic about what action the committee has taken. That's in standing with my understanding, at least, of what happens when committees pass a motion, that the committee takes ownership of that, and further actions are taken in respect of the entire committee, not of any particular individual member or group on the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Devolin.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I presume that one of our general objectives here is to accurately communicate what has happened and as much as possible convey the reality of the committee. So to remove any reference to the fact that it was not unanimous.... This isn't a report; it's a press release. To make it sound like the whole committee was acting as one is, to me, to deliberately try to mislead the public by putting out a release that would likely lead people to draw the wrong conclusion, and that is that all the members of the committee....

I think the majority of members on the committee supported that report. The majority of members on this committee wanted a release to go out; they wanted it to go out from the chair. But quite frankly, I think it's going a step too far to then say let's write the release in such a way that it creates the false impression that everyone on the committee agreed with this. I think there ought to be a reference somewhere in here—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

That it wasn't unanimous agreement.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes, that it wasn't unanimous.

Now, having said that, maybe one reference is sufficient, and it doesn't need to be restated. I just don't understand why we would be trying to mislead people when it's so easy to clarify that point.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Actually, if it were unanimous, then we'd put that into the release. You always put in if it's unanimous, just to make sure people understand that.

To me, it's really no big deal whether you have it in there or not. I would stick it in the back and downplay it, and hopefully at the committee—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Can we not find some goodwill here to do this?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Yes, and I'm trying to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I realize it's a touchy kind of subject when you're putting out a press release and members don't totally agree with it and this kind of thing. But is there some goodwill I can find here to indicate, in some way, shape, or form, that it's not unanimous?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chairman, perhaps we could go back and look at the releases we put out in the previous Parliament, and handle this in the same way. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

In an attempt to find some common ground here, can we not leave the first line as it starts now, “By a vote of”?

Mr. Karygiannis feels it's fine. Madame Faille feels it's fine. Mr. Alghabra says it's fine.

So I think we'll—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

And if people want to leave in “7-4”, you could say—