Evidence of meeting #60 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mother.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Historian, Canadian War Brides
Okay.
There are a number of people who are willing to help, who have experience, who have been trying to get this through to the citizenship department at the highest levels. I don't claim to be a citizenship expert. I didn't want to be, and I am not. But I know what's right and I know what's wrong. If this were an issue of justice, it would have been solved a long time ago. But it's got nothing to do with justice.
Is it seven governments we've seen that have ignored this issue? The Harper government has a perfect opportunity to look great, to not look like a Charlie Brown. But I don't see them taking the initiative to change things. I understand there's going to be some announcement today. Please, do the right thing.
Make it so that Pauline Merrette's sister can come back after being in exile since May 23, 1968, when she turned 24 years old and happened to be in England taking her nursing degree. To her father's great dismay and her mother's terrible sense of loss, their daughter was never allowed to come back here except for visits.
And do it for Denise Tessier and Suzanne Rouleau, who have been told, through a simple application for a driver's licence, that their whole world has turned upside down. Jim Karygiannis mentioned here earlier the security thing. It's going to apply to them. So in fact this will be another 15 months, or God knows how long.
They'll tell you the story. It's fascinating.
I also want to mention too, though, on the one hand that we have had some help from Ann Heathcote. I've got to give her credit. She has intervened and has been a great help. But I am Melynda Jarratt, who gets absolutely no help from anybody to do the work I do. I had to laugh when Lisa said the British High Commission sent her to the support group. The support group is Melynda Jarratt, who was up until 4:30 this morning trying to straighten out what I was going to say. I get no help from anybody. I'm completely independent. I've never gotten any help, even though I've asked. Melynda Jarratt is not the support group. You guys need to do this at CIC. That's what I'm asking.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you.
Ms. Rouleau, do you have a statement you want to make?
Suzanne Rouleau As an Individual
Yes, I do.
Thanks to Melynda Jarratt, I was assigned to a staff person at Citizenship and Immigration and she helped me through this maze of documents and this and that, because it was getting so confusing. On Friday I was told that they're sorting out my problem and I'm going to be okay. I'm so grateful.
My grandson said to me, “Nanny, that means you don't need to go to Ottawa, right?” For one thing, I'd already paid for my ticket, and for another, I'm here for the other people who don't have help to get through all this stuff.
I'll start at the beginning. Dad was born in Quebec. His ancestors were in Quebec for generations. I have his baptism certificate, which is no good. They don't use those anymore. That's the old days in Quebec. When I tried to get a copy of the birth certificate they now give, I couldn't get it. The person in Quebec said you need a letter from CIC that says why you need this thing, because I was supposed to prove that my dad was a Canadian. Anyway, CIC worked that out and I don't need that anymore, I guess.
I have dad's war record. He signed up in 1939. He was sent to England. He left behind a wife in Quebec. He met my mom--and some of this story we're just piecing together--and my mother changed her name, legally, to Rouleau in November 1942. So she would have been pregnant with me at that time. She had her name changed legally, because they couldn't get married. This was probably so that her mom wouldn't freak out. So she must have lied and said they were married. I was born in April of 1943 in England, and dad was sent to the front after I was born.
I know he's my dad. His name is on my birth certificate. They were married in 1946, so I think his divorce must have come through and they were married in September and came to Canada in November 1946. I just assumed I was Canadian. I was only three when I arrived here. I never clued in to any of this stuff that was happening to other people until I retired from Nova Scotia and moved to Manitoba to be close to my daughter, who has four children and is in the military. They were going to send her to Afghanistan last year, but she was pregnant, so now she's back to work, and I don't know if they're going to send her. She had to go to the United States for a course. She has to go somewhere else for another course for a week or a few days, and I'm the only family they have. It's hard on military families; it's hard on the kids not having relatives.
When I went to get my Manitoba driver's licence, they looked at my English birth certificate and said no, you need a record of landing or a permanent resident card or a certificate of citizenship. I've never seen those. I never knew I needed those. I hadn't applied for a passport. So I started doing this stuff. I talked to Merv Tweed, the MP for our area, and he said, “Just contact Citizenship, here's the site.” It was getting quite confusing.
Anyway, things are being worked out, and I'm really grateful. I had e-mailed the minister because I was hearing stories that the minister didn't know how many of us there were. I'm one of them. On Friday I got this e-mail, which I found out later from my person in CIC is just the form letter they send to everybody. It did not apply to me, but it scared me at the time, and I'm thinking this is what people get who don't have somebody like Melynda to help them through all of this.
It says:
Currently, the total...time for a routine application...is between 12 and 15 months. The time required...can also vary....
Our records indicate your application was received at the Case Processing Centre (CPC) in Sydney....
No, it's on the desk in the office in Ottawa. This is not true. If you want, I have some copies of that.
A while ago I watched a TV show in which they showed the new Canadian War Museum, and it's stone and glass. What was the point? My Dad went to war. He was shot, wounded twice. Your building is lovely, but Dad is gone, dead and buried. Does what the military did and is still doing mean something?
Thanks for inviting me here.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you, Ms. Rouleau.
Do you have a word or two to say, Ms. Tessier?
Denise Tessier As an Individual
I do, yes.
I want to thank Melynda and all of you on the committee.
I really appreciate being here. Hopefully, we can come to some decent resolution.
Because I'm a bit nervous, I will read from my notes. I'll try to make it as fast as possible.
You've already heard from my sister that our father was in the war and was wounded. He was a decorated soldier and a very proud Canadian.
We both thought we were citizens, and then this whole thing came about when she applied for a driver's licence. They said, oops, no, you can't have one.
So that sort of started the ball rolling. My understanding of the 1947 act is that any of the children who came over as children of war brides, of Canadian soldiers, etc., would automatically be made Canadians if they came over in 1946. But we came to find out that if you were illegitimate, that didn't apply to you.
So that sort of leaves us in...I don't know what.
As an Individual
Yes, exactly.
So all these years we have been voting illegally. I'm shocked to hear that now there are going to have to be record checks and so forth. This is like saying we are a threat to security.
Because of the illegitimate condition we face, it's very discriminatory. Also, to get your citizenship, apparently it's $75. However, if you were born out of wedlock, it jumps to $200. So what is that? I just don't get it.
My sister and I would like to travel to Britain in the fall. It appears that is probably not going to be possible. We would like to visit our birthplace. Also, my father's brother was killed overseas, and we would like to visit his grave.
As I said, this is becoming impossible. What's ridiculous is that there have been 60 years to sort this mess out—60 years—and here we are.
Together, my sister and I worked for 80 years in Canada, paid lots of taxes, raised families, lived cleanly, and so on, and this is where we find ourselves today. We didn't come in illegally. We didn't come in the back door; we didn't have fake passports or anything like that.
This situation should not even exist at this point, and I really hope it will get resolved.
I also understand that come pension time we will have a problem.
I appreciate you allowing me to make these comments this morning.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you, Denise.
We really appreciate your comments, and well put too.
Pauline, if you have anything you want to add, feel free. If not, we can go to our questioners.
Pauline Merrette As an Individual
I do have something to add.
First, I would like to thank all of you for hearing me today. I'm here in place of my sister, Elizabeth Towner, who is the child of my parents. She is three years older than I am.
My father's family has been in Canada since the American Revolution. We are United Empire Loyalists. My grandfather was a surveyor. He surveyed the prairie provinces. My father was in England, in 1940, as a Canadian soldier. He met my mother, and they were legally married in 1942. In 1944, my sister was born. In 1946, they came over with the other war brides. My sister was two the day the train got to Calgary. We lived in British Columbia. My sister went through all her schooling there. She worked summer jobs. She became a psychiatric nurse.
She decided she wished to become a registered nurse and that she wished to do it in England. She was young and she wanted a chance to travel. In 1965, she applied for and received a Canadian passport, without any objections from the government. When the time came for her to renew the passport they said they were sorry, there was a problem, but they would give an extension, which they did.
She married, and then her marriage failed. She wished to come back to Canada. At that time they said they wouldn't give her a passport. She came home on her British passport. My father went to his MP for Fraser Valley East, a man who was in office--most of it in opposition--for 22 years, Alex Patterson. Mr. Patterson tried to help my father. He lobbied the Department of Immigration.
My sister and my father went to the Department of Immigration in Surrey in 1981. They received a letter, which Melinda has copies of and can supply to you. The letter was very cold. It simply said, “That's tough. We changed the rules in 1947. We didn't tell you. We didn't even tell you when we gave you your passport in 1965.” The letter said that if she wished to come back, she would have to come back as a landed immigrant and then she could start the whole procedure over again.
My father was very upset at this. She was Canadian. He fought it until his death, as did my mother. Now my children and I have taken up this fight for my sister. I understand what you say about the RCMP checks, but in fact my sister's citizenship was illegally removed from her. I do not see why she has to wait a year for an RCMP check when she was a citizen and the government took her citizenship away.
Thank you very much for hearing me. If you wish any copies of the legal marriage certificate or her birth certificate, I have them.
Thank you very much.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Thank you. We appreciate your submissions, all of you.
First of all, we will go to Ms. Demers for her comments, and then Mr. Batters.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I don't think I have any questions either. The situation is abundantly clear. I have the feeling that I'm trapped in a horror movie.
I am not a regular member of this committee. Normally I sit on the status of women committee. However, my father was also a member of the military and served on the front lines in World War II. I grew up with the children of widows or of women whose husbands were fighting in England. I am having a difficult time understanding this situation and why it has come to this.
Before I was elected to the House of Commons, I criticized the government's actions on a regular basis. Now that I'm a sitting member of Parliament, I am still critical of the government, but I like to think that I was elected to take positive action.
I will keep it short, because this is a humanitarian issue, not a political one. I hope that someone in this government will take responsibility for this situation and do what needs to be done. It's immoral and inconceivable that in 2007, people who have contributed their entire life to making this country what it is today are not recognized as full citizens and have to fight for that recognition. It boggles the mind.
I am a member of the Bloc Québécois and I take comfort in the fact that I want to build a different kind of country. If Canada remains this way, it's very unfortunate, but I can understand the woman who was here earlier saying that she wanted to move to England. It is unfortunate that the government for whom people have worked their entire life and to whom they have paid taxes has turned its back on them and refuses to acknowledge them as citizens. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope that ultimately the justice of your cause is recognized.
Ms. Jarratt, my most heartfelt thanks for the work you have done. Good luck with your book. When you are invited to appear as a guest on some programs, I hope that the truth will come to light and that the government will be sufficiently ashamed, as I am today, to put an end to this reign of terror for all of these victims.
Thank you very much.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It was a brief, but well thought-out, comment.
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
I'm going to let Ms. Grewal start, since we've determined that we can share time. Then I'm going to continue where she leaves off. Thanks.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all for coming here and explaining your stories.
Melynda, as an historian interested in Canadian war brides, I understand you have some familiarity with archival records, in particular correspondence between the Canadian government and the war brides or husbands. Can you relate some of what you have learned from these records?
Historian, Canadian War Brides
I have had the opportunity.... I'm probably one of the few people in the country who has actually explored the bowels of the National Archives microfilm, which is huge for the war brides. One thing about the military, they kept excellent records. So you know some pretty...Privacy Act be damned. They didn't care about the Privacy Act there. You know who had venereal disease and who didn't and everything else. It's quite interesting, but you also know a lot of the wonderful stories, of course.
What you see is suddenly there is a change, and I have tried to pinpoint it, but we can't seem to find when there is a change in saying these are citizens and then suddenly they're not. I would like to spend more time doing that work, but I unfortunately have to support myself with my business--I run an Internet company--because historians of Canadians war brides are not very highly paid. As a result, I can't spend 24 hours working on this, although I'd like to. I have a lot of the documentation on a website. There's quite a bit there.
There was an agreement. There was a consensus at the highest levels in 1946 and 1947 that war brides and their children were citizens. We're talking about the Minister of Veterans Affairs...right across the grid, all the departments. You've got Trade and Commerce, which would probably be the precursor of...whatever department that would be today. You've got DND, Veterans Affairs, MPs and mayors, people all talking about the problems arising because of war brides' marriages breaking down and being sent back. They wanted to leave Canada and go back to Britain and Europe. The mayor of Edmonton, for example, was begging for help, and the Canadian government was saying sorry, they're Canadian citizens; they can't be treated any differently than anybody else now. So I guess you're all going to get treated like crap, and I guess that's the one theme that still seems to run through the system, that all Canadians who have come up against the department get treated the same way, which is, in my view, not very well.
So yes, there is a consensus that they're citizens, but there was a change somewhere. When? How? Who decided? We don't know.
Conservative
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you, Ms. Grewal. I appreciate that.
Thanks to the witnesses for being here today and the previous panel as well. Your stories are very compelling. We have a lot of empathy for your stories, and obviously you're very proud Canadians. It's never been any other way for you.
Through you, Mr. Chair, I would tell the witnesses and the previous panel that appeared not to put too much stock in opposition members' comments, Mr. Karygiannis's comments, about the one-year RCMP or CSIS checks, in your cases. While I have a great deal of respect for and I am a friend of the member opposite and he does care deeply about these issues, yours are exceptional cases and I think you have to take the words...and I know there are a number of them--
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Unless the members from the government know the RCMP will be fast-tracked, I don't think they should be misleading--
Conservative
Conservative
Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I think Mr. Karygiannis is throwing out what would be the worst-case scenario. In good faith he believes that's the case, but I think you have to listen to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration who said that the minister cares deeply about these cases, that the cases are going to be handled expeditiously, that program officers are going to be assigned to each case, and we should not assume that the worst-case scenario is going to occur or that the case scenario that exists for a new applicant for citizenship to this country is going to apply to people who've been lifelong residents in this country and are in this situation.
I think it's very important, especially for the previous panel that was quite upset at the end of the last round of questioning, to hear the parliamentary secretary say in his words that the minister cares deeply and your cases are going to be handled expeditiously.
Those are my comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair.