Evidence of meeting #60 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mother.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lisa Cochrane  As an Individual
Marion Galbraith  As an Individual
Michelle Vallière  As an Individual
Doug Cochrane  As an Individual
Melynda Jarratt  Historian, Canadian War Brides
Suzanne Rouleau  As an Individual
Denise Tessier  As an Individual
Pauline Merrette  As an Individual
Don Chapman  Lost Canadian Organization

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Good morning.

We will bring our committee to order, as we continue our study on the loss of Canadian citizenship for the years 1947, 1977, and 2007.

Could we have some order, please?

We have two panels appearing today. Panel 1 appears between 11 and 11:55. I want to welcome on your behalf....

Order, please.

I want to welcome Marion Galbraith, Lisa Cochrane, and Doug Cochrane, who are here to speak to us.

I'm having some problems trying to get order. Please don't ask me afterwards what was said in the last minute or so.

We are welcoming right now Marion Galbraith, Lisa Cochrane, and Doug Cochrane to our committee, as we continue our study on the loss of Canadian citizenship for 1947, 1977, and 2007. Welcome, folks.

We generally allow an opening statement, so I will pass it over to you.

Madame Faille, do you have a request you want to put before the committee before I go to our witnesses?

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

I would like to ask the committee to hear from Mr. Vallière, a Montreal resident, during the first panel discussion. His case is a good example. He no longer has access to health services and has lost his citizenship. Therefore, I request that the committee unanimously agree to allow Mr. Vallière to testify this morning.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

You've heard Madame Faille's request.

In fairness to her, she has been trying to get me for about a week, but of course we were on break week, and I wasn't getting the message you were sending to me.

In any event, I'm always a little bit reluctant to say yea or nay. Generally, I will leave it to the committee to make that decision.

I see people with their hands up. First of all, I saw Mr. Telegdi. Did you want to comment on it?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Yes, Mr. Chair.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Let's be brief with the comments.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

We accommodate members of the committee on these kinds of requests.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Mr. Karygiannis, no problem?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I don't think there should be any problem, Mr. Chair.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Okay.

Is there any problem, Mr. Batters or Mr. Komarnicki?

Okay. That's done.

We will welcome Mr. Guy Vallière. You can come to the table as well, if you feel so inclined.

I'll pass it over to the spokesperson for your group, if you want to make an opening statement.

Ms. Cochrane.

11:10 a.m.

Lisa Cochrane As an Individual

Good morning, and thank you very much for allowing us the opportunity to come here today to share our experience with you. It's been a very overwhelming experience for us and, from what I understand, not a unique one. I'm hoping today that by sharing this information with you it will make a difference for others in the same situation.

In early March we decided to purchase tickets to England to take my mother home for the first time. She left England at the age of three and came to Canada. My grandmother was a war bride and travelled to Canada with my mother and my aunt, who was four at the time. We bought the tickets as a gift, and it was the trip of a lifetime. My mother had her suitcase packed from the first day we got the tickets, she was that excited. We weren't travelling until June, so you can imagine.

We got to the passport office and she was excited. This whole experience was nothing but excitement--but it went downhill from there. We were told that the documents she had were not sufficient for her to receive a Canadian passport because she was not considered to be a Canadian citizen. Of course, my mother became very emotional and I became very upset. I said, “What are you talking about? We spent thousands of dollars on plane tickets. This is ridiculous.”

My husband, being the reasonable man he is, stepped up and said, “Oh, no, this is a misunderstanding, Carol”--my mother's nickname is Carol--“We'll fix this. It's okay.” My husband is the family genealogist and has all the documents you could possibly imagine. He said, “I have all the papers for you at home, so it's not a big deal.” We prepared to go home and thought it wasn't a big deal and we could resolve this fairly easily. We're average people. We trust what we're told by our government. We trust what we're told by the bureaucrats who work for the government.

We made a trip to the Citizenship and Immigration office in Halifax, and it was a nightmare. I never had such poor customer service in my whole life, I'm ashamed to say. We walked in the door, and my mother again was emotional, because 10 minutes prior to that everything she believed to be true about being a Canadian had been pulled out from under her. So she was weepy, and it looked like this trip was going to be lost to her.

We approached the commissionaire behind the glassed-in enclosure. My mother proceeded to say, “I've just been to the passport office and they tell me I'm not Canadian. I have all of these papers. Help me. Who do I need to talk to and what do I need to do?” He didn't warm up to my mother's situation, and I become a little frustrated. I spoke up and said, “Look, this is what we need. We need to speak to somebody. This is what we have and this is what we've been told, so how do we fix the problem?” He said, “See that phone?” and pointed. I'm a university-educated woman and I have a man looking at me saying, “See that black phone? Go to it.”

I crossed the room and picked up the phone. “Press line 1, press line 2, speak.” That's how I was spoken to at the Halifax office. That was the assistance I got. We left there in shock, because I was told it was quite likely my mother was not a Canadian citizen. I had to fill out this paperwork--go to their website and download the forms. We began the whole process.

In the end we had all these forms. It's quite simple, really, just fill out all of these papers and you'll be a Canadian citizen. My grandfather fought for this country for seven years on the front lines as a medic at Dieppe, and this is what his family is told? It's not acceptable or appropriate. Nonetheless, we decided to jump through the hoops necessary because this trip meant the world to my mother.

We decided this was not going to happen in a timely fashion, because the more calls we made, the more confused we became, the more things we were told, and the more papers were sent to us. These papers are the result of four different inquiries, and each and every set of papers is different. We tallied it up, and if we had completed all of these applications and submitted them, it would have cost us $430 for my mother and $430 for my aunt, and they would not necessarily have done what we needed to do. In the end, all she needed was an application for a citizenship card, but nobody took the time to listen or understand.

We were drowning in paperwork, and I finally said, “Enough is enough. We're taking this trip come hell or high water.” I contacted the British consulate; I said, she can travel on a British passport because she is a British citizen. They said that was fine and they would issue it at a cost of $286. We would have it in three or four weeks. We decided that's what we were going to do. But then she said that if my grandmother was a war bride, there was a very helpful website available called canadianwarbrides.com. That was the light at the end of our tunnel, because had it not been for Melynda Jarratt and the folks who are associated with Melynda, we would not have a resolution.

I can happily say today that because of Melynda's intervention and because of the contacts Melynda has and the assistance she offered, we actually presented my mother's documents to an analyst at CIC yesterday, on Slater Street. The intention was to drop them off in person to Nicole Campbell, but unfortunately she wasn't in the office at the time we were there. We were able to hand them off to somebody, and it's dealt with.

In the meantime, we're talking about a pleasure trip. That was inconvenient, and it would have been an economic ouch if we had not been able to take that trip. Fortunately, we were able to reschedule. We're going in mid-August.

A couple of days after we discovered the whole passport situation, my aunt got a telephone call and was told that her application for old age security would not be processed until she could prove her Canadian citizenship, and that by the way, she was not Canadian either. At this point, she was completely in disbelief. She said there had been a mistake. She was at the same point as us: this doesn't happen; this is silly.

I'm happy to say that she will now not suffer any sort of economic loss, because her citizenship card, I'm hoping--we don't have the cards in our hands--will be processed and she will be able to receive her benefits. My mother will be able to receive her passport, and we'll be able to go on.

But we're fighting mad. I appreciate everything people have done for us. And I have to say, aside from the experience in Halifax with that one gentleman...we dealt with Sharon Burrows last week, who was very helpful, and Nicole was very helpful to my husband. We appreciate everything that everybody has done, but this is not right.

Why is this happening? We're Canadians. We honour our war veterans. We honoured our war brides last year. We took them on a train trip and returned to Pier 21 where my mother and my aunt and my grandmother arrived in this country. What was that? Was that lip service? I just don't understand.

We're picking on senior citizens. Let's take the energies of Canadian immigration services and focus them where they need to be, which is to ensure that people who are a threat to the security of this country are dealt with, not senior citizens, please.

I love my mother to bits. She may be annoying sometimes, as are all our mothers, but she is not a security threat. Come on. This is wrong. Why are you wasting your time and energy and money to sit here to right this wrong when it's so simple? When it comes to Canadian citizens, in my book, my understanding is that if one parent is Canadian, that's all that counts. Or if you're born in this country, that should be all that counts. So why is this so hard to understand?

Take these antiquated laws that are filled with so many loopholes and open to so many interpretations and change them. This is 2007, and yet we're quibbling over out-of-wedlock.... Well, I'm sorry. Everybody has a skeleton somewhere back in their closet, and who are we to point fingers and use archaic language like that in this day and age?

Thank you for the opportunity, once again, for us to come and visit this wonderful city, second in beauty only to Halifax, Nova Scotia, I might add.

Please take to heart what we're bringing to you today. We're not politicians. We have no political agenda. We just want to right what's wrong. This is government. It's supposed to work. It's supposed to make sense. Unfortunately, at this point, I'm shaking my head thinking, why?

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you, Lisa, very much.

Do we have any more statements from Ms. Galbraith or Mr. Cochrane or anyone?

Do you have any opening statements you want to make?

11:20 a.m.

Marion Galbraith As an Individual

I don't know how I can follow that. She said it all.

She said it all, really, except that I'm disappointed. My father did go to war, and his father before him--my grandfather--and fought the war. They took their only son to go to war and prayed for him to come back. And he did come back, with a wife and two children. I know that if my father were alive today he would be really upset. My grandfather would have been really bad, and my grandmother. We were always told, when I was a kid growing up with my two cousins.... When we'd get mad at each other, I'd say to him that I'm British, and my gram would say, “You are not. Don't you ever say that. You are Canadian, because your father was Canadian. You are a Canadian; you are not British.”

I don't know. I feel bad, and not only for me. When I read the e-mails on Lisa and Doug's computer and saw all the other stories, I sat there and cried like a baby. I laughed and I cried when it happened to me. My sister took it very personally and cried for a couple of weeks. It's all she wants to talk about, night and day. Sometimes I just have to pretend when she calls me that I have to go to the door, because she is so upset. Really, she should have been the one here. She wouldn't be able to say too much, though.

I know that life goes on. But I still feel that everyone who came with their mother from the war should automatically be the way we were told by my grandparents and my father we were. And that's the way it should be.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you, Ms. Galbraith.

Mr. Vallière, is there anything you want to say?

11:20 a.m.

Michelle Vallière As an Individual

I am Michelle Vallière, his daughter.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Okay.

11:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Michelle Vallière

I can speak in English, but because I wrote down what he wanted to say, it would be better to speak in French, if you don't mind.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Of course, whatever you feel most comfortable with.

11:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Michelle Vallière

His name is Guy Vallière and he is Canadian by birth. He was born April 24, 1926, in Pointe St. Charles, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. He is also American by birth. His father was François Xavier Vallière.

He was born in the United States, in Chicago, and no one told his grandfather to apply for Canadian citizenship. Let me read you his letter.

I lived and worked in Quebec until about 1969. I raised three lovely daughters who in turn produced 11 children and twelve grandchildren. I am a Quebecker. I even joined the military in Quebec during the last war, but when Hitler discovered that I was on the boat, he committed suicide, so I returned to Quebec along will all of the other Canadian soldiers.

11:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Ha! Ha!

11:20 a.m.

As an Individual

Michelle Vallière

These are the facts that he wanted me to share with you.

I receive QPP and CPP benefits as well as CN pension benefits.

He began receiving that pension when he was living in the United States.

I am a Canadian and I must tell you that I worked in the United States for only 9 or 10 years in total.

He stopped working because he was too old.

I returned to my native country on October 20, 2006, only to be told that I no longer had citizenship status, despite the fact that I had every possible piece of ID imaginable, such as a SIN card, a Canadian birth certificate, the names of my brothers and sisters and my father's papers—in short everything that the Régie de l'assurance-maladie was requesting. Yet, I was denied coverage and asked to provide proof of my citizenship. I am at a loss to understand because during the 1980s, I lived in Quebec with my wife for three years, I believe, and I had a health insurance card. Why wasn't the card simply reissued to me? They firmly explained to me that a mistake had been made at the time and that the card should never have been issued to me in the first place. They said to me again that I needed to provide proof of my citizenship and that then, after a period of three months, I would receive a card. End of story. Officials refused to listen to anything else. Today, I am old and all alone. I want to live with my family, but I have no rights. Immigration recommends some complicated procedure. Listen to this: they recommend that I apply for a passport, but my application will be rejected because I do not have a sponsor who...

So, forget about the idea of applying for a passport.

...they suggest that perhaps my daughter could sponsor me, but again, I do not measure up to the standards. Then they suggest I apply on humanitarian grounds, but for that, I would need to pay $500 which I would lose even if I am right and, if my application is accepted, I would be on the hook for another $400 or thereabouts. I have already paid immigration $75 to do its job, but without any luck. I refuse to pay any money to prove my identity! How do I feel about all of this: well, I feel like a nobody, worse than an immigrant or even a terrorist.

These are strong words, but that is how he feels. We were not aware of the situation, but here is what we just learned.

Because you see, immigrants and terrorists are issued a temporary health card. I am a Canadian and all I want is to live with my children. I realize that I am no longer a young man, but I served my country, had a family, did my bit with CN to help the country expand. What is the problem?

You forgot...

Not you specifically, of course, because you have been very kind to receive us.

...to tell me when you passed this particular piece of legislation that I would lose my Canadian citizenship unless I applied for it. However, I am a Canadian. I was born here in 1926. I did not leave until the late 1960s and I returned around 1980 or 1982. I am sorry, but I do not recall the exact dates, because my memory is longer as good as it once was Considering that I came back for good in 2006, I have spent a total of 45 years in this country. I am 81 years old, which means that I lived in the US for only 35 years. I celebrated my 81st birthday in 2007, and upon returning home, I am being told that I no longer exist, that I have lost my citizenship, that I have no status in this country.

It is totally ludicrous.

I cry every day and think about dying. My daughter tries to cheer me up by saying that I have to tough it out because she would have trouble burying me since I do not even exist.

That is how things are with my father. I cannot even allow himself to die, because I would have trouble burying him. It's silly, but that's how things stand.

It's enough to make you laugh, but I ask the ministers and members of Parliament: where is the humour in this situation? I just want to be left in peace. I am the picture of health, apart from some speech impediments, the side effects of a serious stroke a few years ago. I may not be a boon to the Canadian economy, but I have paid my dues. Would you not agree with me? I only want some peace of mind. Why deny me that?

I am his daughter and this situation is a travesty. We are all Canadians. His brothers and sisters all had dual citizenship, but they did not receive a letter either informing them that they could lose their Canadian citizenship. Had they received such a letter, they would have taken the appropriate action.

My father returned to Canada at the age of 81 years, on short notice, for personal reasons. I had 48 hours to make the arrangements to bring him back. He no longer has any rights. The system makes no sense whatsoever. Thank heavens that I have a lot of support. He categorically refuses to put out any of his money to prove that he is a Canadian. The $75 he paid out of pocket was for his citizenship card. We thought that officials would do a bit of checking and that everything would work out, but that did not happen.

While in the United States, he was receiving his federal pension benefits, but these benefits were supposed to continue when he re-entered the country. He was entitled to these benefits. Believe me, he had to file a tax return. And yet, officials claim that he is not a Canadian citizen. Something is wrong with this picture. He should be receiving his benefits here, but because officials have just now realized that he has no status in this country, it is possible that his pension benefits may not be deposited into his account this month. Who knows. The system is very poorly conceived.

There is more. Obviously at his age, he does not want to travel. If I had to bring him to the hospital, he could be admitted on an emergency basis. However, by law, the doctors are not encouraged to treat him because he is uninsured and has no status as a Canadian citizen. I do not understand exactly how it works, but we need some kind of resolution to this situation because he does not fit in anywhere.

Thank you for your attention.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you, Ms. Vallière, for your comments. I know it's a very emotional issue for you.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, Mr. Cochrane had a brief comment he wanted to make as well, if there is time.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Sure, I think that'll be okay.

Thank you. Hopefully we're going to be able to make some good recommendations to solve your problems.

Go ahead, Mr. Cochrane.

May 29th, 2007 / 11:30 a.m.

Doug Cochrane As an Individual

I wanted to speak on behalf of Marion's sister, Annette. She couldn't come today, but she asked me to read a brief letter, if I could, just so that I could speak on her behalf. It begins:

To Whom It May Concern:

Finding out that I might not be a Canadian Citizen was a terrible blow to me.

I cried for weeks, until my niece Lisa and her husband Doug stepped in to help my sister and I.

Growing up in the South Shore town of Liverpool, N.S., I was always told I was a Canadian, when I was asked the question.

My Grandparents and two Aunts helped to raise us, after my mother passed away, four years after entering the country.

My Grandfather fought in World War I and my father (his son) fought in World War II.

Dad joined at the age of nineteen and got out at the age of 26 after the war.

He came back with the Army, and my mother, sister, and I. We came over on the hospital ship Letitia. We came on that ship because mom had two young children under the age of five.

I hope that anyone, going through what I have over this, can also get the help they need.

Being older and finding this out is much worse as I would have dealt with this long ago had I known there was a problem.

I think people that are in this position should be made aware and helped as much as possible, because you get so many conflicting answers to your questions.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle

Thank you.

Do you have a point of order or something, Mr. Batters?