Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 7th, 2007

[Krista Daley]

Sir, perhaps I could just clarify. These two members are only on the refugee protection division, so we don't have the information here with respect to the other division.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Well, it's the best we're going to get before we adjourn for the summer. What I have heard is that no dates are being booked. We have a backlog of thousands of people whom the government is trying to get rid of, but they cannot get rid of them--these are criminal records, if you will. They cannot get rid of them until such time as they have a hearing before the immigration appeal division, and you certainly must have some idea as to what happens there, because you folks aren't that separated out.

You would know. You would have an idea, so I would like to have you, Mr. Sandhu, give me your best knowledge on this.

[Ken Sandhu]

I'm sorry, sir. I really don't know, only because we've been concentrating on the refugee protection side. But we could get you that information.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

I would like to have that, because I think it's important, and I hope the parliamentary secretary takes note. As much as we want to be fair and have a system where the refugees get a chance at a fair hearing, in coming into this country, we also want to make sure we have a way of dealing with people who have abused their welcome in this country. Having thousands of people who, on the basis of criminality, Canada is trying to get rid of doesn't enhance public safety for Canadians. This is something that the Conservatives always talk about, law and order, and what have you, so that's very much a policy difference.

The other--

[Krista Daley]

Sorry. Perhaps I could just be clear about what you're asking for. You want to know the processing time for the cases in the immigration appeal division.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

That's right: what does it take?

[Krista Daley]

Okay.

As you will recall, Mr. Sandhu was asked a question at the beginning about some of the initiatives we had in terms of reducing the backlog. He mentioned the integration initiative in the western region. This would allow our members a bit more of a flexible workforce--for instance, if a member were going to an itinerant location.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

I'm sure you're aware of the House of Commons passing a motion on the implementation of the refugee appeal division. I was on this committee when we passed the new Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. It's something that Parliament feels very passionately about. Eventually, when we have the right circumstances, it's going to become legislation. You might take that back to the members of the board. I'm sure they're keeping on top of this.

In terms of getting to the backlog, can you tell me what the processing time is now for somebody to go through a refugee application, from the time of application to the time of decision rendered?

[Ken Sandhu]

Sorry, sir, we'll have to get that for you. We don't have it with us right at this point.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Because I hear it's rather lengthy. Again, that's something this committee is concerned about.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'll have to ask you finish up, Mr. Telegdi. It's been six minutes now.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay.

This is something we're very concerned about, getting timely decisions and getting down not just the backlog but also the time for processing.

[Ken Sandhu]

If I may, Mr. Chairman, at this point it's approximately 14 months.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Telegdi.

Mr. Bellavance, when you're ready.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to tell you that, in my committee, the critic may ask questions in each round, without any problems. Nonetheless, I am pleased to take part in this meeting to review the qualifications of the appointed individuals.

Mr. Sandhu, you talked about various priorities: in particular, you want to help to train new members. We know that there is currently a shortage of members.

I would like you to explain to us in greater detail how you intend to train these new members. Who will help you train them, since there is a shortage? I would like to know whether this is one of your priorities and whether you have a specific plan as to how you intend to proceed.

[Ken Sandhu]

Mr. Chairman, we have recently received some appointments. There have been about 10 or 11 appointments in the last few weeks, and a few reappointments. So we are getting some appointments and we do have some new members we have to train. We are able to do that at this time because we have enough resources. We have enough experienced members who we can pair them up with, in addition to our regular basic training. So we're fine at this point.

As you can appreciate, it's always nice to get a few lump sum payments for training purposes so that we don't have to run too many programs. Nevertheless, the appointments are coming. We do have some new appointments that have been made in the last few weeks.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Do you have any other comments, Ms. Figg?

[Lois D. Figg]

I have nothing to add, other than to mention, with regard to the new member training mentioned by Mr. Sandhu, that it's a three- to four-week program. We've had that in place for many years. It's actually a world-renowned program. We assign a mentor, following that, to each new member. Depending on the region, members will be put in teams--in the bigger regions, for instance, Montreal and Toronto--and we do have, for the time being, enough experienced members to be mentors.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Are experienced members, the mentors, already assigned cases?

[Lois D. Figg]

Yes, absolutely.

[Krista Daley]

I'd like to clarify this, because I think what you were getting at was if we're limited in resources, how can we use the member resources we have now to train new members. That's what I was hearing.

I want to clarify another point. For example, the majority of the new member training program that Ms. Figg referred to, which is a three- to four-week period, is given by our professional development unit, who are not board members, and my own unit, which is the legal services unit. So we're actually able to provide a lot of what I call the “clashroom” work, in terms of the law and the procedures, so that doesn't really make a large drain on the other member resources.

For all members, and this is whether or not we're in the current situation with vacancies and backlogs, or historically, they then would normally sit as three-member panels, until we're satisfied that they're able to resolve and handle the hearings by themselves, and then they're assigned a mentor for a period of time. That really has been an ongoing process for us.

So there is a division between the resources needed to train up a member between the public service and the GICs and the GIC managers who are in place.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I presume that some of the committee members you are talking about today are on sick leave.

Have you any statistics on this? Is there currently a major shortage?

[Ken Sandhu]

No, sir. There was no unusual number of absences on the part of the existing members. There are always a few who are not available, for one reason or another, but not unusual numbers.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. Wilson.