Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 10th, 2008

[Rick Stewart]

How many of those were actually removed?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Yes, removed.

[Rick Stewart]

These are applicants who are in the country, so it's zero.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Zero.

[Rick Stewart]

It's 0% of the 90% of applicants who apply in Canada and whose applications are approved in Canada.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

So you've never had a situation where somebody was approved but then was removed before their approval came through?

[Rick Stewart]

If anybody were removed from the country, they would have to apply for spousal reunification outside the country. They wouldn't be applying in this class.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Then they have to start all over again?

[Rick Stewart]

They wouldn't be applying in this class; they would be applying in the out-of-Canada spousal class.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

So then they'd undertake another application. Now, instead of it taking six months or eight months, they're going to be stuck for another couple of years.

[Rick Stewart]

To go back to my comments, if these people are subject to removal, at the point at which CBSA alerts or informs them of removal proceedings it will inform CIC, and we will pull their application out of the queue and provide expedited processing for those applicants who face the possibility of being removed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Okay, we have to move on. It's been seven minutes.

Were you finishing up your comments, Mr. Stewart? Feel free to do so.

[Rick Stewart]

So in those cases, we will have reached a point of a determination of the validity of their relationship before removal is affected.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all.

I would like to continue on this path and talk about figures, to get an idea of the magnitude of the situation. Once an application is filed, five or six months may pass before an individual receives a response, and in the meantime, this individual could be subject to a removal order to their country of origin. What percentage, of the 90% of individuals whose applications were approved, were ultimately removed before receiving a response?

[Rick Stewart]

I'm not in a position to say absolutely whether or not anybody was removed, but in those cases where they have already filed an application for spousal reunification before removal action was initiated, we will work with CBSA to defer the removal for a period of 60 days to provide the CIC with the opportunity to pull that file out of the queue of all the applications we receive, and to expedite the processing of the application to make a determination of the validity of their relationship within 60 days, before removal. So we will make a decision whether or not there is a valid spousal common law relationship, i.e., make a decision that takes us to that approval in principle stage, with the objective of doing it within 60 days—before removal.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

So, for what percentage of situations are you able to make a decision within 60 days?

[Rick Stewart]

Unfortunately, the systems we have do not have that specific figure. But again, I will go back to the comments that both Susan and I made. In a case where we have not completed a decision within 60 days, we will confer with CBSA with a view to deciding whether or not to proceed with the removal, depending on where the process is. If we are reasonably close to making a decision, we will provide extra time as a matter of course to permit CIC to finish its assessment of the validity of the relationship. The objective is to avoid the circumstance of removing somebody when we are close to making a final determination.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In order to make a decision and think about this issue, it is important to know how often you achieve the objective you just mentioned. But you are telling me that you are not able to give a percentage of the number of individuals,or to know how many times you have achieved that objective and how many times you have not. I am sure that there are cases when an individual was removed to their country of origin before receiving a response about sponsorship.

Are you saying that you do not have that information with you, or that it is not possible to get?

[Rick Stewart]

I'm telling you no data in our system allows us to answer the question you have posed, and I regret that.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

So do I.

Ms. Kramer, in your speech, you mentioned the time limits twice. You said, “Without limiting the time, those seeking to avoid removal would make continuous applications for permanent residence under the spousal-in-Canada class.” At the end, you stated “Those seeking to avoid removal could make repeated spousal applications, thereby jeopardizing the integrity of the immigration program. ”

I was not aware that an individual could file several spousal applications. I thought that since in Canada we can have only one, we would not be able to file several applications.

How would the time limit prevent people from filing repeated applications? Could you provide a more detailed explanation?

[Susan Kramer]

Many people make multiple applications for permanent residence in Canada. We see it many times on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, and the same goes with spousal. Living in Canada is very important, and people will go to many extremes to meet that goal. Many times we have second and third applications made in a desperate attempt to live here.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

For the same spouse?

[Susan Kramer]

For example, if someone says the marriage is not bona fide, you can apply again with additional proof.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

How will the time limit prevent this? You said that it is more difficult because there is a 60-day period each time. But the individual could still file several applications.