Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 12th, 2008

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

So the point I want to make is that obviously there are certain steps you need to take, and there is a transition period for you to be in position to take the role. Both of you, as I see it, are proceeding as you ought to proceed to get yourselves in position to take on the responsibilities given to you.

Another aspect I want to review--and perhaps Krista Daley could elaborate on that--is that the two of you had to go through a process that maybe others hadn't. I know a public appointments commission secretariat in January 2007 made a number of recommendations to the minister. As I recall, one of those recommendations was that the applicants go through a series of events, interviews, and so on, but also they'd have to take a competence test and they would have to pass the test, which is something that didn't necessarily exist under the previous government. Is that so, and could you elaborate on that?

[Krista Daley]

Yes, I think that's probably most appropriate for me to cover.

There are three steps to the whole process, the first being a regular application form, which is screened to see if people have the minimal requirements. Then there is a written exam that covers four competencies. Each of those competencies must be passed to pass the written exam, and that is a change in the process that came into place after the Harrison report in July 2007. If the person then passes all four of those competencies on that written exam, they go to the interview, at which point the rest of the competencies are examined, and finally reference checks are performed.

So that is the new system.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

On a general basis, I'd like to say that I'm well satisfied not only by looking at the background and experience that you're taking with you, but at the fact that on an objective basis you participated in a program that required you to be tested, and you actually passed the test in order to qualify for your position. I certainly congratulate you on going through that process and undertaking a change in your careers that will have influence across the nation as we're dealing with some rather interesting transitioning in the immigration area. I know the work will be demanding, but it will be also, at the same time, very rewarding.

So I want to encourage you to use your skills and your background experience to advantage as you're faced with situations and tested from time to time as you make decisions--and may they be just ones.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

If we don't have a comment on that, that completes our seven-minute round.

We'll go to Mr. Telegdi, for five minutes.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We on the committee have had a discomfort ever since Jean-Guy Fleury was shovelled out the door and forced to resign because they made a non-partisan appointment process partisan, which is really too bad, because it was one of the great accomplishments of previous parliaments to depoliticize the appointment process to the board. So while that process is in place, there will be people rightfully concerned about the impartiality.

Mr. Dolin, you were here at the time we passed the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and you were here when we put the immigration appeal division in there. You were here during all the years that the members of this committee fought to have that happen, including the Conservative members--until they got into government.

I remember when we were discussing it with the previous minister, Minister Volpe. He said that once he got the backlog down he would make that happen. Unfortunately, under this Conservative administration, the backlog has gone up, which really is a problem. Instead of fixing the system, they have created a crisis in the system.

Notwithstanding all that, Mr. Dolin, you are somebody we know, or that committee members at the time knew. I dare say you're probably the only member on the board who had a recommendation from the chair of the committee as well as all the critics and the members who worked with you to put you in that position. So it's the ideal situation of a totally non-partisan appointment, which is very gratifying.

My question to you is this. What is the backlog right now at the appeal division?

[Benjamin Dolin]

You'd have to talk to Krista for actual numbers; I don't have the figures. In my current position, I basically get my case files for the next two weeks and I deal with the individual cases that are assigned to me. I have no involvement in managing the case files or the administration aspects of that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Ms. Daley.

[Krista Daley]

I brought my statistics, and as Mr. Dolin mentioned, an individual member is rarely involved in the national...and the scope of it all.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Good. What is the backlog?

[Krista Daley]

What we are anticipating on the immigration appeal division...and that's what you're speaking about, not the refugee protection division?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Yes.

[Krista Daley]

The anticipated pending caseload by the end of this fiscal year--so that's two weeks from now--is 10,000 appeals.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

You anticipate 10,000 appeals. Thank you.

If the government wants to legitimately get rid of someone with a criminal record who's a permanent resident, who's a danger to the community, but that criminal has the right to a hearing before the immigration appeal division, what's the timeframe before that case will be heard?

[Krista Daley]

On the first comment, so that everyone is aware of this, not all persons with criminal convictions who are permanent residents have a right of appeal to the IAD. There is certain serious criminality that doesn't, and that was dealt with as an amendment at the time of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

The average processing time for a removal order appeal is currently 15 months.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

We could have somebody we're trying to get rid of for 15 months. Under this Conservative government's mismanagement, we're going to have to wait 15 months before we can get that person out.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but every permanent resident you're going to expel from the country has the right to be heard by the immigration appeal division.

[Krista Daley]

No, not everyone. There are serious criminality provisions under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, and those persons do not have a right of appeal to the IAD, even though they are permanent residents. That was an amendment to that point. In the old immigration act, every permanent resident had that right of appeal.

I'm now just scrambling through my act here a little bit. Yes, it's subsection 64(1), where it says that in cases of serious criminality a person has no right to appeal to the immigration appeal division. Those are persons who have committed a crime that is punishable in Canada by a term of imprisonment of at least two years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

I'm sorry, Mr. Telegdi, your time is up. Your time has come and gone. As a matter of fact, for the record, you had close to five and a half minutes.

We'll go to Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I would like to take advantage of this meeting to learn a little more about your role, since I only recently became a member of this committee.

My question is for Mrs. Daley.

If I understand correctly, we're hearing from three new board members. How many members are there in your organization? How many of them are bilingual? Are they required to be bilingual?

[Krista Daley]

I'm sorry, but once again, I just want to make sure I have the correct statistics.

The IRB is resourced for a complement of 164 Governor in Council appointees. In the whole of 2007, we had an average complement of 105 members. We were resourced for 164, and we had a complement of 105.

With respect to bilingual capacity, there is not a fixed figure for how many appointments need to be bilingual, but the IRB must be able to provide hearings in the language of the proceedings. So in each of the regions, there is the capacity to deal with hearings in both languages. And of course, in Montreal and here in Ottawa there are more.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

To your knowledge, how many bilingual members are there? How many of them can speak French?

[Krista Daley]

I don't actually have that figure here. I have some of the officials here. I wonder if I could turn to them to see if anyone has that specific statistic. Otherwise, we can get that for you.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

French is one of the country's two official languages. But you don't know at all how many there are. That doesn't seem important. I would appreciate you answering me in a little while, if possible. My colleague and I come from the Montreal area. That's in Quebec, which is part of Canada. So this is an important factor for us. There are a lot of people in our ridings who tell us about their immigration problems and have to call upon your services.

Going back to the CV of Ms. Setton-Lemar, she is from the Montreal region, and that's why we are dwelling on this a little. Since Mr. Volpentesta is from Toronto, other committee members are interested in him.

I would like to know what Ms. Setton-Lemar meant when she wrote the following sentence: “[...] I felt it was necessary to move to Ottawa, Ontario, from Montreal, Quebec, in order to raise and educate my children.” What does that mean for a citizen of Montreal or for whoever might consider settling there? Is it preferable to move to Ottawa to educate one's children? Is that what this means?

If that's the case, that troubles me. The problem, when you put a lot of sentences in a CV is that it makes people think. I don't know whether management received this CV, but, personally, I would be asking myself some questions before hiring a person who will have to deal with people who must settle in a city of their choice and who says that she moved to Ottawa to raise and educate her children, as though Montreal were in the countryside.

I'd like to know what she meant in writing that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to say that the chair has the right to rule this question out of order—although if the individual wishes to answer it, she may—because the question doesn't relate directly to the appointee's or the nominee's ability to do the job.

But if the individual wishes to answer the question, or if the member wishes to tell me how it relates to—

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

That's not political; I simply wanted her to explain what she wrote in her CV. That's not a political question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I agree, it's not a political question, but the rules simply say that any question may be permitted if it can be shown that it relates directly to the appointee's or the nominee's ability to do the job.