Evidence of meeting #19 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alberta.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I wouldn't even venture to guess. I was hoping to get on the speaking list. I was trying to get your attention.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
I want to thank you for listing this. You have done a lot of research in what you have presented. I didn't realize that the CBA courses, the Canadian Bar Association courses, only get 10 points, and CSIC courses get 20 points.
4:55 p.m.
A witness
Exactly.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
That's interesting. You know, you pay $800, and you have to come to Toronto. I'm from Toronto, and I love Toronto, but you have to come. You get 20 points to attend the conference, and it doesn't matter whether you write any exams after the conference. Do you just show up and get 20 points? Is that how it works?
4:55 p.m.
A witness
Yes.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
Okay.
It's not in Quebec. Why is it just in Toronto? Why not in Montreal?
4:55 p.m.
Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
This conference hasn't been held yet, but for the one last year, in May 2007, it wasn't even a matter of showing up. If you didn't attend, you had to pay the same fee, the $800--
4:55 p.m.
Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
No, it was 15 points--to purchase the video of the conference. And we have until November 2008 to do this.
In immigration--I don't know how closely you work with it--we get updates weekly. There is an enormous amount happening in immigration law, between decisions the courts are making and every PNP program changing its website every week. The skilled worker program is this week.
Think of this. I now have to pay $800 before November, sometime in October, for a series of programs that were held last May 2007. I am so far updated from that material that I won't watch it, but I have to pay the $800 anyway, I am told, or be suspended.
4:55 p.m.
Founder and President, Vermax Group Inc., As an Individual
May I add something to that, just very briefly?
I'm almost embarrassed to even say this. One of our members inquired as to the difference between the 20 points and the 10 points, 20 for the CSIC conference or seminar and 10 for the CBA. The response came back saying that the CSIC seminar consists of two days, and that's why. It's 10 for one and 10 for the other. It's embarrassing, quite frankly, and insulting for me as a member to receive such an answer, and that's the official answer we received.
Just to add one more thing, again, there is a lot of emotional charge in all of this when you talk about the $800 video. I personally sent a note to CSIC asking whether we can share that video among four colleagues who work in the exact same office in our building. We are different companies, but we share the same resources, we go to the same conferences, and we educate ourselves on many issues. And I haven't even received a reply to that question.
5 p.m.
NDP
5 p.m.
Conservative
5 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
It's the secretary, I'm sorry. Pardon me. That's what I meant.
I see that the recommendations basically ask for reports of financial transparency, accountability, and all of that. Aside from all that, you talked about fundamental changes. What kinds of fundamental changes? Aside from all the administrative pieces you are asking for, what proposal do you have? Is it basically the same body? I noticed that you said there are two bodies now, and then there is another company for education purposes. What do you want to recommend?
5 p.m.
Immigration Consultant, Commissioner for Oath, Immigration Plus, As an Individual
I think they should remove CMI Inc. totally, because CSIC is a non-profit organization.
Isn't it a conflict of interest for a non-profit organization, whose members go forth in a personal capacity, to open a for-profit corporation to sell education courses? The directors are the same directors who are sitting on CMI Inc. Isn't this a conflict of interest?
5 p.m.
Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
I would say, in answer to Ms. Chow's question, that one thing I want to leave the panel with is that the members haven't been given a chance, so I don't think that accountability is an end in itself. I hope it would be a means of trying to get the organization on a more sustainable course. The members would not have made most of the decisions that have been made at the governance level of this organization. The measures don't make economic sense; they don't make industry sense. So I'm asking that the members be given a chance, to see if that could work. But there has to be very strict back-up for the fact that those members, democratically, have the right to set the directions of the society.
Thank you.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Good point—a good wrap-up point.
It will be interesting to have CSIC come before our committee in Toronto. I know they have representatives in the room, as a matter of fact. So you've given us a lot of good fodder to question CSIC. So thank you. It was really, really good.
Look for our recommendations in the near future. I don't know how near, but you can look for them in a month from now, I suppose.
In any event, thank you. It was a very good submission. I really appreciate it.
5 p.m.
Immigration Consultant, Commissioner for Oath, Immigration Plus, As an Individual
I hope we will not pay for coming here and bringing all these matters—
5 p.m.
Immigration Consultant, Commissioner for Oath, Immigration Plus, As an Individual
Thank you.