Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 7th, 2008

[Salam Gatih, Mandaean Canadian Community Association]

Good morning, Chairman, and good morning, standing committee. Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to be here to present our case.

My name is Salam Gatih. I am from the Mandaean Canadian Community Association, and I am originally from Iraq. I have been in Canada since 1979. I am a Canadian citizen, and I'm proud to be one.

I'm coming here today to tell you about our people, the Mandaeans. Mandaean is one of the oldest religions in Iraq. It goes back at least 5,000 years. We used to live close to the Sumerians and the Syrians and the others.

Mandaeans are, as we say, the weakest link in Iraqi society. We are peaceful people who are against war. Mainly, we practise religion as one of the followers of John the Baptist. We still do it in the river, the way we did more than 2,000 years ago. Our people are mostly in science, education, and jewellery design.

Saddam Hussein's regime, the war he launched against his neighbours, the destruction he caused, and the situation after the departure of Saddam Hussein have cost all Iraqi people. What makes the Mandaean people the most vulnerable is that they have no government or organization to support them. When they are in Iraq or manage to leave Iraq, they are left open, because the neighbours--countries such as Syria, Jordan, and many others--don't know them. They have no idea who the Mandaeans are, because the Mandaeans have only lived in Iraq and in the south of Iran. For a thousand years, they never left that country. They know Iraq as mainly a society of Muslims or Christians, but they don't know the Mandaeans.

So when they leave Iraq, they are left open, as we say, in the wind. They don't know where to go. There's no support. The only support they have is their savings, the money they have from selling their belongings when they come over. When that is finished, they have no idea what to do, so they are stuck in the middle. Some have families, and they have no choice but to go back to work again and take their chances in Iraq, where some of them have been killed or captured, with ransoms demanded for their release.

I came today to ask you for help, as an Iraqi and also as a Canadian, which I am proud to be. I know that Canada is a great nation that opens its heart when there are humanitarian concerns involving kids and families.

I'm proud to say that during all those years, the only way for our people in Iraq to prove themselves--you cannot raise arms, because we don't believe in war--was to be educated and to be the best. In this case, you'd be respected based on your level of intelligence.

If you kindly--and I'm speaking in general, as an Iraqi--help the Iraqis, concentrate on Mandaeans in particular, because they have nowhere to go. There is no support. There are no organizations. There is absolutely nothing at hand for them, except to look to you, to this peaceful, democratic country that always gives us an example of how we should practise accepting and tolerating each other, and how to prosper through education and intelligence, and to compete through one's personal abilities, not physical abilities.

Kindly, again, I ask you to increase the number of Iraqis to a minimum of at least 10,000. So open your hearts, because 1,000 or 2,000 is absolutely nothing compared with the four million Iraqis who are looking and have nowhere to go. That is what we are asking you, Mr. Chairman and the standing committee: to focus on the Iraqis. I would say even 10,000 is really just a drop in the bucket, but at least it's a good start, so that they will see that Canada has not left them behind.

I remember that when Albanians were in a crisis, and many, many other societies were suffering, Canada was always there. We are proud of that. That's the reason I've lived here for 30 years and I'm proud to be Canadian. My kids were born here, my family is here, and I do everything I can to build my future here in this country. I use this as an example whenever I go to the Middle East, and I always say that I'm proud to come from Canada.

So this is the time to look toward the Iraqis and to help them. That's all I'm asking.

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Thank you very much.

Now, is there a Mr. Asaad Daihgan next?

[Salam Gatih]

No, he's from the Mandaean community, so I spoke on his behalf. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Well, thank you very much.

My office, in particular, was very personally touched by what was happening in Iraq. I actually found out from reading the paper that nine people with the same name as one of my long-time employees were killed in a bombing, when Chemical Ali was being chased with bunker buster bombs. Instead of his being killed, his aunt, cousins, and their children were killed. We certainly heard a lot about it in my office, in terms of what was going on.

I know this is a difficult plea that you're making, and I want to thank all of you because your presentations were excellent. Given the fact that we have so many Iraqis in Canada already, sponsorship should be a simple matter.

I'm going to now give every member of committee up to five minutes, if they want, and make sure everybody gets to ask a question.

I will start off with Mr. Jimmy Karygiannis, who was particularly strong on making sure that we studied this issue.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome to all of you, and thank you for coming. I know some of you have made a trip from Toronto and some of you were here. As you can understand, there are going to be hearings again tomorrow, and there will be a little bit of crossover.

Just for the record, I and the vice-chair of the committee are both, I would say, immigrants of a special kind in this country, in that we both sought refuge here. We share with you some of the situations you have. I know others of us have immigrated to this country, and we know the hardships that immigrants go through.

As for myself, I have a staff member in my office who is married to an Iraqi and has immediate family from Iraq. I guess I get to hear it every day. Being born in a refugee camp myself in Greece, I realize the hardships in what you're facing.

I've got a couple of questions, and whoever wants to take a stab at it, please go ahead.

Over the years, and over the last year, some of you have expressed concern that one particular religion has been persecuted more than others. So I throw that in there, and whoever wants to address it, by all means go ahead. Give me 30 seconds to finish—I'll throw out the questions and whoever wants to can take a stab at it.

I realize that today we do have a cross-section of religions represented here. I'm very honoured that Mrs. Yanar Mohammed is here from Baghdad, and we are fortunate to have you here to present to us not only what we hear from people who have been here in this country for 50 years, but also first-hand.

So the aspect of the religion is out there, whoever wants to address it.

Mr. Salam, about the number, you said that 1,000 is not enough. Since last year when this motion was brought onto the floor, the minister, in October, moved to allow fast-tracking of family class and/or spouses. This would not have been done unless the motion had come on the floor. The minister, knowing full well we're going to meet here today and probably are going to raise those concerns—and I'm trying to be very apolitical in this matter—raised the bar to 1,000. Now you said that 1,000 is not enough, and you mentioned something like 10,000.

I also want some of you to address the issue of how the community itself and community partners are not engaged by Citizenship and Immigration, for you to be able to be sponsors of refugees.

Mrs. Al-Sewaidi, you mentioned Damascus. Last week we heard in Vancouver of gross incompetency as well as people in Damascus being on the take, by a member that reported it. Do you have anything to add to that?

Those are my questions, and whoever wants to take a stab at it, please go ahead. One is the number, two is the religion, and three is Damascus and what's happening there.

[Falah Hafed]

Are you going with the number first or the religion?

[Salam Gatih]

The Iraqi refugees are right now outside, in the surrounding countries. There are around four million people. Some of them have been there for a few years, waiting for sponsorship by other countries. A thousand to four million or four and a half million--it really does not address the problem.

What I'm proposing currently is that the government—with Canada as a country open to the immigration, especially where we're talking about people who are, a lot of them, in educated departments—could increase it to a minimum of 10,000. I'm not saying 10,000 as the maximum, but the minimum should be 10,000, and if there's room to increase it more, that would be the ideal, given the extreme situation in the Middle East and the suffering. People are being hammered from both sides, from inside and outside, in the countries where they are.

So 10,000 should be the minimum they could look at, and accelerate it after that, hopefully.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

In that respect, sir, would you want to see that extended, should somebody have a sister or a brother there who is single and not covered right now in the Citizenship and Immigration request? Would you like to have the family sponsor that individual for three or four years?

[Salam Gatih]

Yes, as the Mandaean Canadian Community Association, and I believe the other Iraqi associations, we have families here who would be more than happy to help the incoming refugees this year, to extend our homes and show them where to start, where to go, to sponsor them so they could starting working. I do know these people are hardworking people. They left Iraq by no choice of their own. A lot of them are educated. The proof is here right now. Of the Iraqi people who are here, the majority are working people; they pay taxes, respect the law, and they are grateful to be here.

I'll assure you that if we are given the okay, the Mandaean Canadian Community Association will be the first to start giving our assurance and guarantees that we are going to look after the families who arrive here.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Thank you very much.

Next we have Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chairman, some of the members had said they might want to answer on the aspect of religion and on what's happening in Damascus. I'm looking for your indulgence, if you would like to give them an opportunity to address these issues.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

We'll get back to you, Mr. Karygiannis.

Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I thank you all for being here today and for your presentations.

For the most part, you have described the lengthy delays in processing faced by Iraqi refugees who want to come to Canada. It is an intolerable and unacceptable situation. Ms. Al-Sewaidi also explained the extent to which the bureaucracy can sometimes be annoying and difficult to deal with. I think that we all pretty much agree with that. By their inaction and inertia, this government and the previous one have put us in this position.

However, the committee must focus on this point that people raise: the situation is not restricted to Iraqi refugees. In a system that is already overloaded, that works in slow motion and that suffers major failures, any significant advance for immigrants from Iraq will of necessity come at the expense of other refugees facing the same problems.

How can we justify a special program for refugees from Iraq, or speeding up the processing of Iraqi files? What would you tell those who wonder whether people living in extremely difficult situations in Haiti, Sri Lanka or Darfur risk being penalized if special programs are put in place? Would that be acceptable? How do you respond to that?

[Falah Hafed]

I will respond to that.

I think the total number of refugee seekers, as the high commissioner said, is about 110,000, all over the world. Canada is taking only 28,000, while Sweden is taking 36,000, and the United States is taking 49,000. I find the Canadian number disproportionate to the economic capability, the population number here, and the size of the land here. I think we should increase the number. Instead of making more refugees move from one place to another place at the expense of the other place, we can just increase numbers of them and get more share.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

If I understand correctly, you are not asking for a special program for Iraqi refugees, you are not asking for preferential treatment. You want the total number of refugees accepted to be increased and for the whole apparatus to work better. By definition, that would partially solve the problem for Iraqi refugees. Does that reflect what you were saying?

[Falah Hafed]

Yes. The fact is that half of this number are Iraqis, in 2007. It's 49,000 Iraqis. If we break down the numbers—I do have some numbers here—the first country producing refugees is Iraq, in 2000. The second one is the Russian federation—I don't have the exact number here in hand, but I can provide you with that. China would be the third, and subsequent countries come after that.

The total number, as I said, is approximately 110,000. We make up about half the total numbers, and when you increase the numbers, you are treating us as special. But if you take 28% of the total, of course our number is going to be very small. Because we're taking people from China, from Russia, and from other countries, we're going to be the last and we're going to have very small numbers.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Ms. Mohamed, what do you think?

[Yanar Mohammed]

I prefer to look at it another way. If you compare the Iraq situation with that of Darfur or Sudan, there is a major difference in that the Iraqi population had to change into a very deprived and very bizarre humanitarian situation because there was a failure in the international community to stop the illegal war on Iraq. There was an international intervention that has turned our lives upside down, and we see now as the time for Canada to play a leadership role in the international community to start to make a difference in this international intervention, to put Canada on the right track so that it will lead the international community to lead people in other places in the world to a better situation.

We think that what happened in Iraq--turning a population of 25 million into that of a big prison with four million refugees inside and outside the country--was the direct result of the lack of leadership in the international community. Who can fix that situation, other than a government like Canada?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Okay, we've got it all there. We've gone quite a bit over, but we'll--

[Ghina Al-Sewaidi]

Maybe I can squeeze in my answer in another question.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Andrew Telegdi]

Okay.

We've got Nina Grewal. She's actually the only member of the committee who was here the last time we were here in Waterloo.

Nina, welcome back.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome all of you. Thank you for coming, thank you for your time, and thank you for your presentations.

All of us know that Canada is a country of immigrants. Immigration has played a significant role in our modern Canada and what it is today. Immigrants will continue to play a significant role in our social, economic, and cultural aspects. Our government, as all of you should know, is pro-immigration. Our system must be equipped to effectively cater to the needs of our country and be fair to all the immigrants who come to our country.

I know how hard it is for prospective immigrants to Canada, because I myself have also lived in a war-torn country, Liberia, in west Africa. The situation is the same everywhere, wherever the refugees are, whether it's in Iraq, in Vietnam, or in Africa.

I have a couple of questions for you. Private sponsors have indicated that they would sponsor more refugees if they could. The backlog of applications attests to their willingness to contribute. What measures could be taken to unleash this untapped potential?

Second, are other countries accepting these refugees?

Could you please answer these two questions first?

[Falah Hafed]

There are other countries taking care of Iraqi refugees. I've been mentioning Sweden because it is just a marvellous country and has been taking the load off Iraqi refugees. They doubled their quota--if there is a quota. I don't know, but they doubled what they are taking.

As for the numbers in Syria and Jordan, there are refugees there. They are in those countries, but those countries don't have the ability to deal with the numbers. In each of those two small countries, with their poor economies, they have almost a million persons. In their normal life without this number of refugees, those two countries are not able to provide a good health care system or good jobs for their own people. When they get another million, it's going to be very difficult, and here is where the international community has to step in and help.

The countries around Iraq taking the greatest number of refugees are Syria and Jordan. Some are in Turkey and some are in Iran, but they all depend on the western world, which is taking only 1% of the Iraqi people applying for refugee status, and that's all.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

And regarding the two million, would you like to answer that?

[Ghina Al-Sewaidi]

What was your question again?