I'll come to that in a minute.
Evidence of meeting #35 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultants.
Evidence of meeting #35 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultants.
1:45 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
Buzzing in my head, Madam Chow, is a number of things. You have to remember that CSIC is composed of consultants. We are a separate profession. It is very beneficial to have that profession mix and amalgamate, to be attending its own seminars, good quality seminars.
The committee, with respect, seems to throw and lump together lawyers and consultants, always the bad consultants but never the bad lawyers. And the interesting thing is that we have both.
1:45 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
That wasn't my question. I'm talking about structure; I'm not talking about individuals. There are good apples and bad apples everywhere.
1:45 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
Yes, I agree.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
Order.
I'm just trying to give you some silence here. Everyone is speaking.
1:45 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
If I'm a consultant and I pay x dollars to attend this course, if I just pay and I don't show up, is that okay?
1:50 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
No, it's not, with the exception—
1:50 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
How do you know whether they show up or not, or whether they attend the entire course?
1:50 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
Madam, I suppose, in reality, the fair and truthful answer to that is that neither organization knows if they show up. There's no registration for the law society. There is registration for CSIC. Once someone registers....
Someone could come in here today and just skip out. How do we control this? We're not a fascist organization. So it's very difficult.
You're right, and I've heard stories from both the law society and CSIC of people going down in the morning, checking up in their room. I don't know what the answer to that is.
I would go one point further. Both organizations make videos available of everything that happens so that a member can watch those videos.
1:50 p.m.
Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Migration Institute
Certainly I can address some of the questions you're posing there.
On the continuing professional development point, it depends on a number of things, in terms of how the program is evaluated, from my knowledge there. It depends on the content, obviously. It also depends on the style of delivery. If it's a lecture style of delivery, it's not rated as highly for CPD points as it would be if it's interactive, where part of it is a workshop undertaking and part of it is a lecture.
I know in the case of the recent CMI event that we put on just two or three weeks ago here, it consisted of a lecture, and then there was an interactive discussion with the people who were attending. Plus, there is a provision that for them to receive their CPD points they must complete an online questionnaire on the content of the particular program that was done.
Those are some of the items that are taken into account. There's a whole list of criteria, but off the top of my head, those are the ones I'm aware of.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
There's no doubt in my mind that when you have an organization that's supposed to regulate others, the matter of discipline is important, as is the setting of standards and a national education program. CMI is attempting to fulfill that role. I agree with you that there are growing pains in every organization. You're fairly young, four years plus. It takes a while before things work themselves out.
I have a few questions. One of your members raised this, and it is a very interesting point. In your bylaws there's no provision for the membership to call an extraordinary or special meeting. It can be called only at the call of the chair or the vice-chair, or at the call of the board. This provision struck me as one that perhaps needs to be changed or addressed.
Do you have any comments?
1:50 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
I'm not a member of the board, but I am directly affected. I agree with you. I think we should have the same provisions as any organization in this regard. We should be looking at that.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
One of the concerns was that the membership should be able to call a special meeting, if it chose to. In my reading of the bylaws, it doesn't appear that it can. It's something that perhaps needs to be addressed.
Also, the definition of “authorized representative” says that such people can represent, advise, or consult for a fee, which is the kind of thing lawyers do. Would the law society be able to sanction those who do the same kinds of things for a fee without being registered with CSIC?
1:50 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
One has to remember that there is no distinction between a CSIC member and a lawyer, a barrister, a solicitor, or a public notary. The only thing that a CSIC member cannot do, with respect to applying the law to immigration, is go to Federal Court.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
My question is, though, could the law society regulate those who are providing consultant-type services but are not registered?
1:55 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
Absolutely. They have that power. They've written about it. They know they have the power.
But what's been going on over the last few years, sir, is a fight between the law society and CSIC. They're playing little games, political games. You're used to little games, I'm sure. I say this with all respect.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
1:55 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
Basically, the law society now realizes that CSIC is here to stay, and they want to put an end to this little feud. They know they have the power and they've decided to exercise it. If you read the IRB statement of last Friday, you'll see that's precisely what they're saying.
1:55 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Komarnicki Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
I'll come back to that.
You were saying that unauthorized practice could be prosecuted by the law society. Have there been instances of this actually happening? I don't recall any.
1:55 p.m.
Member of the Canadian Bar Association and of the Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants (CSIC), Founding Director, Canadian Association of Professional Immigrant Consultants (CAPIC), Bruce Perreault and Associates
Do you mean since CSIC or prior to CSIC?