Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 30th, 2008

[Abraham Abraham]

Thank you for these questions, which are very important, of course, in trying to understand the situation in Iraq.

I must say that the U.S. is UNHCR's major donor, and when UNHCR appeals for funds we are referring to funds being given for humanitarian programs. More than 2.7 million Iraqis are displaced within their own country, so clearly there's a very compelling need to support and provide assistance within the country. We do have programs, together with the NGOs, to respond to needs within the country, and of course the response is always to the extent that the funds are available and made available to us.

Outside, we have programs where, again, appeals are made. In this case you'll see that joint appeals are also taking place with other UN sister agencies within the framework of an overall UN response to the situation in Iraq.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

You've said that 31% of these refugees outside Iraq plan on returning within the next eight to twelve months. Is that because they feel the situation within Iraq is becoming more stable and safer for them?

[Michael Casasola, Resettlement Officer, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees]

I'm sorry, I think you might have misunderstood the statistic. It was only 4% of the 1,000 people Ipsos surveyed who said they were looking at returning, and within that 4%, 36% were looking at it within the next 12-month period.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Are we looking at an additional problem for the Assyrians? I've had Assyrians approach me, and they're talking about the impending danger of extinction for them. What are your comments on the Assyrians in particular?

[Abraham Abraham]

Well, actually there are several groups of refugees in that part of the world, and as far as we are concerned, all the refugees who are in that situation are actually vulnerable. The vulnerable refugees are the ones we are trying to resettle. Among those, you have very special cases of vulnerable refugees whom we'd like to resettle. Those numbers are not much in comparison to the much larger population both within the country and outside the country.

And we would not wish to look at one particular group of either Christians or one particular group of Muslims. We would like to look at them together and see who among them are the most vulnerable and how we could remove them from that situation, and possibly see whether resettlement could be a solution for them.

[Colleen Beaumier, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Ms. Beaumier.

Who's next, Mr. Clerk?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Andrew Chaplin]

Mr. St-Cyr.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Mr. St-Cyr.

From now on, I want you to get the eye of the clerk to get on the speaking list, because I seem to be having some problems. People are telling me that I'm not going to them when I should be going to them.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. When we look at the clerk, the clerk points to you. So will you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm authorizing the clerk to take your names from now on.

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I thank you for being here.

There are two major requests. First of all we are being asked to make financial contributions on the ground in order to help internally displaced people in Irak. On the other hand, Canada is being asked to consider the possibility of welcoming more refugees. It seems to me—and I clearly want to know what your opinion is, even as I develop my own— that in terms of scale, the difference is enormous. There are 4.7 million displaced Iraqis, and this year, the number of refugees has gone from 500 to 1,400 people. That represents only 0.03%, even less. We will not settle the problem by bringing those 4.7 million people somewhere else. From my perspective, Canada's contribution would certainly be more effective and would help more people if it were to contribute financially in a significant way in order to allow people to live decent lives in their own country, rather than bringing a very tiny number over here so they could survive.

Do you agree with that analysis?

[Abraham Abraham]

If you would allow me, I'll respond in English.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

There is no problem.

[Abraham Abraham]

I understood your question and I think it's a very valid question. I think the issue here is that the intention is not to resettle the kinds of numbers I've just exposed in terms of the Iraqis who are displaced both within their country and outside the country. In terms of resettlement, we always like to seek more places because of the sheer magnitude of the problem. The numbers of those who are resettled annually is quite small in comparison to the very large millions of people who are displaced and who find themselves outside their country. Our interest is to try to see who among them may be the most vulnerable, and who may be in need of resettlement because the situation where they find themselves is such that this could pose a danger to their lives.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Therefore, if I understand correctly...

[Abraham Abraham]

If I might come back to your question, yes, it is, of course, an excellent way to deal with the current situation of such large millions of refugees, to be able to give them assistance there. But again, we are not fully funded; I don't think everyone is fully funded. We do have difficulties in funding. And this is why we continue to appeal for funds, both as UNHCR, as the UN system, and also in terms of asking that funds be made available bilaterally to these countries, with the hope that their conditions could be improved.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

If I understand correctly, you are emphasizing the importance of making a much more significant financial contribution in order to be better able to help the most people there. I may be mistaken, but I want to make sure that that is what you are thinking. That is what would allow us to help the greatest number of people. Having said that, there will always be cases that are rather extreme and quite difficult. It is probably best to plan for a solution that would allow these people to resettle in other countries and begin new lives.

Is that indeed what you are thinking, is that a fair interpretation?

[Abraham Abraham]

UNHCR will continue to seek increased contributions and we will also continue to seek more resettlement places, but clearly increased contributions are primarily intended to look after them where they are.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

The second question deals with financial contributions. In your speech, you spoke of conferences that have been held on the issue and on commitments that have been made. As if often the case when it comes to international development and emergency assistance, the amounts pledged are always much greater than what arrives on the front lines.

Has Canada always met its commitments in terms of financial contributions until now?

[Abraham Abraham]

As I said, Canada is a major strategic partner in UNHCR. Canada has always respected many refugee situations worldwide and is always aware of what is the most difficult refugee situation as well. Today we find the situation of Iraqis in the Middle East, of refugees in the Middle East as a whole, to be one of the biggest challenges facing us.

I don't think Canada in any way is sitting or standing behind in trying to help us deal with the situation. This is why we are grateful to the Government of Canada for coming forward and making new announcements in terms of the numbers of refugees to be resettled as well as its continued contribution to and support of our work.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you.

Madam Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You said that there are 80,000 extremely vulnerable people, and 15,000 Palestinians. Of the 25,000 you've submitted this year, what percentage are Palestinian?

[Michael Casasola]

I can only speculate, unfortunately, but I think we're looking at probably less than 1%, given the reasons already cited. One, it's been very difficult for us to resettle people outside of Iraq, because many governments can't travel inside Iraq for safety reasons. Second, we've had difficulty, as noted in our presentation, in terms of just accessing some of these refugees in border camps.