Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 13th, 2008

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Another issue, with all due respect, Madam Minister, is in reference to this impression that you're trying to leave Canadians with, that you're doing it because you want to deal with the economic challenges of the country. If you were really serious about it, then why did you accept 36,000 fewer landed immigrants into Canada? And why didn't you use those 36,000 as skilled workers?

The concern I have is that this misinformation campaign is really hurting the credibility of the process. We would be willing to support your initiatives if you had given us the respect that a parliament deserves, and you have not. That is a sad statement. I'd rather you had put all the information out. We could have debated this issue--a serious debate--and you would have consulted prior and after you presented these changes so that due process would have been followed. This is where the failure is on this bill, because no opportunity was given to Parliament to take a serious look at it.

Nothing shows that more than having a bill that is over 100 pages, with two pages dedicated to immigration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

A response from the minister....

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I was asked a moment ago how the backlog was created. Partly it was created because there were a lot of public consultations and lead-up to the passage of IRPA. We wanted to prevent that, because that would not help the system. In terms of dealing with the backlog, the first thing we have to do is limit the intake before we can reduce it. We've made that perfectly clear. That's why legislative changes are needed.

We are also doing this as part of a comprehensive immigration vision, where we are deliberately expanding the temporary foreign worker class, because we need to get people here to fill jobs and it takes way too long for them to come in through the regular stream right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Carrier.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Minister.

You began your presentation by stating how proud you were to be the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. To my mind, to have such an important piece of legislation on immigration, a subject of interest to the whole country, consigned to barely two pages of a 130-page bill does not do you justice as Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. I think a different approach should have been taken, and a real bill calling for immigration reform tabled.

All of the groups that we have spoken to and that are concerned by the immigration issue have confirmed that they were not consulted on Part 6 of Bill C-50. To put forward this initiative as the solution to the problem is more or less an abuse of authority. As committee members, we are forced to quickly review the portion of the bill concerning immigration. In essence, we are consulting and discussing after the fact a bill that pleases no one.

How can you claim to be proud, given that this bill is subject to a vote of confidence, because it is a budget bill? It's as if you want to tie our hands so that we have to go along with your solution.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

This bill has been the focus of many debates, including the one taking place today. I even invited all opposition critics to a briefing on this bill, and no one bothered to attend to learn the facts. It is important to realize that Canada's success depends largely on our having sufficient human resources. After 2012, our net labour force growth will come from immigration. It is critical that steps be taken now to address this situation. We cannot afford to spend two years debating this matter. We need to act now, for the sake of our economy and our country's future.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Madam Minister, you have been in office for at least two years now, which should have given you ample time, in my view, to introduce a regular bill that we could have examined calmly, instead of rushing around trying to get people's views on this part of the bill.

You say that you are committed to investing $109 million, which would allow you to make, among other things, administrative changes, such as centralizing the data entry system. However, you failed to mention the 50 IRB positions that remain vacant. Staffing these positions should be your priority if you want applications to be processed more quickly.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Which 50 positions are you referring to?

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Of the 156 IRB member positions, I believe 50 are vacant.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

IRB member positions?

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

That's right.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

You're talking about a completely different system.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

These are not the same...

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

That is a totally different system.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

These are not the people who process the applications.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

No, they are not.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Moving along then, you stated that the instructions to be issued will take into account a range of viewpoints. Whose viewpoints exactly? Several groups have told us that priority consideration will be given to the views of employers and that a considerable amount of lobbying will be done to influence the instructions that you will be issuing.

Do you plan to take into consideration the views of groups that represent cultural communities?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Sir, we have the support of almost 50 ethnic community groups, of business associations, of most provinces and of nine newspapers. The list of supporters is fairly extensive, as they appreciate what we are trying to accomplish.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

These groups are not...

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I have to interrupt here. Sorry.

Mr. Komarnicki.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for your remarks. I'm happy to hear many of them explaining the way of the bill. There's certainly been misinformation with respect to the bill, not coming from your office but from other quarters. I know we have settled, through hearings, that refugees and protected persons are not affected by this bill, that humanitarian and compassionate grounds—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

A point of order.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Certainly Mr. Komarnicki is summarizing something I have not heard, and I'm sure that if we look over the blues, this will be the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

The honourable member knows that is not a point of order.

Mr. Komarnicki.