Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 28th, 2008

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Can we just focus on the immigration program and not the settlement program? The settlement program is different in terms of the agreement, like the Canada-Ontario agreement. That is the settlement program; I'm not talking about that. That's integration. That's citizenship. I'm talking specifically just about the immigration program--not the temporary foreign workers, just immigration alone.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

A number of programs were in place on a temporary basis. They had been approved only in the short term. Those programs expired.

We're also looking at a number of other things. There was a decrease of almost $10 million because of lower corporate services allocations to the program. Again, that was sunsetting for the global case management system. There was a decrease of $4 million for resources that were transferred to the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. That was to pay for our staff in their facilities. There was another decrease of $3.1 million for sunsetting resources of a short-term nature that had been specifically applied--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

We see that in the note here. It says all that. But what does it mean? I thought we needed a new computer program. When I look at Australia, I'm totally jealous of their program. They can file online. They can see how far back they are and where they're at. It's completely transparent. We need a decent computer system so that people can e-file, just like for income tax. Why can't we do that? Why would you want to sunset that kind of project? I know that the old computer program wasn't under your watch; it was under the other government. It just didn't work. It didn't work at all.

Are you planning to do that? Because until you do that, you can't get rid of the backlog.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yes, and you're absolutely right. Our computer systems do need work. That's why, in Budget 2008, there was money allocated.

[Richard Fadden]

There was a mention in Mr. Flaherty's budget of additional funding for e-applications. In particular, we plan to allocate them to the education sector and to start using that as a building block to expand services more broadly, as you're saying.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

When will we actually see--

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

I'm sorry, but the rules have to apply equally to all.

We'll go to Mr. Komarnicki, please.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Bevilacqua. Thank you for the support for Bill C-50--in committee, going to the House. I know there's been a lot of rhetoric by the Liberal Party, but in the end, they have supported it. Of course, obviously Bill C-50 is the bill that will help deal not only with the backlog but with stopping it from growing.

There's no doubt, Minister, that there are a number of labour shortage needs in our country. Employers need labour and newcomers need jobs. I've had the good fortune of attending some private colleges to extend the off-campus work permit. I've learned that not only are the foreign students pleased, because they can earn some money, but the universities or the private colleges are happy, because they get the students, and the employer is happy, because he has someone to fill a job that's really not fillable in many cases.

I know there are also the temporary foreign workers, as many have said across the country as we've travelled in our hearings, who would like to somehow become permanent residents of our country.

You have mentioned some innovative things we have done, in addition to Bill C-50, and the funding that's been invested in terms of helping them along. Perhaps you could elaborate on what has happened with respect to foreign students. Also, what is happening with respect to the Canadian experience class, and how might that help the labour situation in our country?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you very much. Those are very good questions.

We face some real challenges in terms of getting the people here for the jobs that need to be filled and getting them here quickly. With the backlog of over 900,000, it's taking too long. This is why we have very deliberately begun tearing down the walls between the permanent stream and the temporary stream. We want to make sure we're getting people here in a timely manner to fill jobs that need to be filled. They're filling jobs in which they can be successful.

That also applies to foreign students, because let's face it, when people come here as students, they get attached to the community and they get Canadian credentials. We've made it possible, through the off-campus work program, and now the expansion of the post-graduation work permit program, for them to get Canadian experience. Canadian experience, or the lack thereof, has often been a barrier to newcomers' success in getting work in their chosen fields. A combination of these things is going to help us attract more people, get them here quickly, and get them credentialled to Canadian standards.

Having done that, having invested in them, we'd like those people to stay, which is why this summer we'll be launching the Canadian experience class, which will allow certain temporary foreign workers with Canadian experience and graduates of Canadian universities and colleges, again with Canadian experience, to apply for permanent residence without having to leave the country. They won't have to go back home, apply, and wait six years to come here. We want to take advantage of those Canadian credentials as quickly as possible and take advantage of the fact that they've already demonstrated that they can work well and succeed well in this country.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The impression I get is that it's a win-win situation. It's another type of vehicle that can be used in addressing the needs of the country. Certainly, I know the students themselves are quite pleased to hear of the expansion of their ability to work. Also, employers have expressed significant interest in ensuring that they can continue to have that labour force. From the country's point of view, it seems that once they've been in the country for a certain length of time, have already worked here and earned an education or a degree, they're already part of our society and culture and are more likely to succeed.

Do you have the specifics on what might be available to a foreign student after they graduate from university or college?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

It used to be that when a student graduated, they had to get a job offer in a field related to their study and then apply for a work permit that would be good for one to two years, depending on where they were in the country. And that's often difficult because, quite often, people take a generic university program, for example, English or social sciences. They might be offered a job in the insurance industry that does not directly relate to their field of study. They wouldn't have been allowed to accept that under the old rules. Now we've expanded the program so they don't have to get a job in just their field of study; they can get it anywhere. First they get the work permit, then they get the job, and they can stay for up to three years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Thank you, Mr. Komarnicki and Minister.

Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I have problems with the advertisement that has been running, because quite frankly it really doesn't say much. It states some intent, but there is really no substance to it.

The other issue I have is with the 2008-09 estimates for Citizenship and Immigration Canada. On page 10—not of the main estimates—we have adjustments: the temporary foreign worker program, $4.6 million; government advertising programs, $2.4 million; and the Foreign Credentials Referral Office, $2.2 million.

Do you see those numbers?

[Wayne Ganim]

Sorry, those are in the supplementary estimates for 2007-08?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

For 2008-09.

Do you have that book or don't you have that book?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, sir, if I may.... I'm sorry for interrupting.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

There's a point of order.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Stop the clock.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

The minister is here to discuss the main estimates facts and figures, and the fact that the minister and her deputy and the whole department don't know what we're talking about is an insult to this committee.

I'm just wondering if the minister will agree to come back another day to discuss this, since the minister has absolutely no clue of what page or number we're on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Norman Doyle]

Well, obviously that's not a point of order. The member took the opportunity to express a point, but not a point of order.

I'll go back to you, Mr. Telegdi.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think it really is a problem that the officials don't have the numbers we are referring to. It really puts us at quite a disadvantage for having reasonable discussions.

The point is that there is no real content in these ads. They say, “We the Conservative Party intend to do this”—or the Conservative government—but in no way do they describe how they're going to do it.

Premium prices are being paid for these ads; I checked on this with some media. The government is paying way more than what I would pay if I went to advertise.

It seems to me that what the government is trying to do is to buy editorial support by giving out money for essentially useless ads. The Globe and Mail, in its editorial, referred to the fact that this is a waste of money, and there are other publications that would say the same.

It seems to me, Minister, that Bill C-50 is not flying in spite of the money you are spending on it. It's not flying; it's not getting support.

Since we're talking about that, Minister, and since there is a backlog of 925,000, with 615,000 in the skilled worker category, can you tell me if you or your officials have an inventory as to who exactly is in that backlog of 615,000?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

In terms of what kind of inventory?

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

What kind of skill sets do they have?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Historically, that information has not been kept, but, yes, we have started to enter that now, in terms of their qualifications.

If I might, I'd like to clarify a statement you made, that Bill C-50 is not getting support. In fact, we have had support from a wide range of ethnic community associations, and a wide range of national media have endorsed it—in places where we did not pay for advertising, by the way. And finally, as I understand it, the bill has been forwarded from the finance committee to the House of Commons with the support of the Liberal Party, and it will be going to the Senate soon.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

It didn't come from the support of the members of this committee.

You know, Minister, I guess it's a question as to when we put the skids to this corrupt Conservative government.