Evidence of meeting #6 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was objection.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Norman Doyle
There are far too many conversations in the room, and I'd like to concentrate a little bit on what Mr. Telegdi is saying. I'm sure the witnesses would like that as well. So could we please have a little bit more of your attention?
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON
I want to go back to Mr. McDowell.
Could you expand on at what point you came to the decision? How was it for you personally, and how was it for fellow soldiers who were facing that decision? It was not an easy decision to come to, I take it. How did you manage to cope with it?
4:40 p.m.
War Resisters' Support Campaign
Growing up as an American, I just had this feeling, as many people do, that what my country was doing was representing goodness. I came to the conclusion that what we were doing at that point was representing what, to me, the United States doesn't represent. During my tour I saw the things that were happening and realized that we were there for an unjust cause, that the reasons for the invasion never happened, were never factual.
I felt very connected to it all at one moment, and it's when I was transferred to a small base just north of the city of Baghdad. I was the communications sergeant, so it was my communications team with an infantry battalion. The battalion would go out and patrol the surrounding areas and bring back detainees. These people would be tied up, hooded, and on the ground of the building in front of the battalion commander's office for a day or longer. The soldiers were required to let them use the washroom. However, they would refuse to untie their hands or take the hood off their heads.
I didn't hang around to see what the result of that was. However, at that moment I felt very connected to those crimes because that commander couldn't do that without my job. If I hadn't supplied the communications, it wouldn't have happened.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Janzen, you said something about somebody from a Muslim country, I believe from Turkey...?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Ottawa Office, Mennonite Central Committee Canada
Yes, a person from Turkey.
4:45 p.m.
Director, Ottawa Office, Mennonite Central Committee Canada
I think he is....
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Okay. So he would have a conscientious objection to going to serve in north Cypress?
4:45 p.m.
Director, Ottawa Office, Mennonite Central Committee Canada
His objections are in principle. It's not only--
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Since Turkey is invading, and is the military occupant of north Cypress, I would say that he'd probably have a military objection to that, and that's why he's in Canada.
December 6th, 2007 / 4:45 p.m.
Director, Ottawa Office, Mennonite Central Committee Canada
He has objections to killing--period.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
This is why, sir, and I want to let you know this, I opened it up to others besides just the United States folks. There are others who are conscientious objectors who object to going to any war.
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
It's my turn.
Mr. Karygiannis's question caught my attention and I didn't remember exactly what the question was that I wanted to ask, but it has come back to me.
Mr. House, you are the lawyer for a number of these conscientious objectors. You can probably enlighten the committee. Do you have specific legislative changes to propose to us concerning immigration or refugee claims?
4:45 p.m.
As an Individual
Thank you very much for that question.
I believe it would be quite easy to write an amendment to section 25 of IRPA. The amendment would simply instruct the person making a decision with respect to humanitarian and compassionate considerations to take into account the status as a conscientious objector to war.
What we have now in section 25 is simply that for various humanitarian reasons, including reasons of public policy, a person may establish humanitarian grounds, but we don't have any clarity as to what public policies the Parliament of Canada wants to further.
For example, I did write, only as a suggestion, the amendment or motion that the fact that a foreign national has refused to serve in the present war in Iraq shall be deemed a highly important public policy consideration, under section 25, favouring the application.
Something like that, in my view, would be a very important step toward recognizing the validity of claims of--
4:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, that's fine. It could be broadened or not; I'm here in terms of American soldiers who have deserted the Iraq War.
There are many possible amendments or resolutions that could get this point across. Obviously, though, the present policy is that you make a humanitarian and compassionate application and then you're scooted out of the country while it's being considered. That doesn't make very much sense to me, and I don't even think it's humanitarian or compassionate.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
In fact, what you want in the short term is a stay of removal for people who have been rejected as refugees. Is that it?
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Yes, a stay of removal, to be able to stay here until such time as their agency application has been--