Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 12th, 2009

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Anyone who knows my mother knows she's very meticulous with her affairs. She's very street-smart, and she's been through a lot in her life. Anyone who ever comes to our home receives complete written documentation of any types of transactions that are taking place. I can say, thankful for my mother's due diligence and organization, that these documents proving Ms. Tongson gave the passport to my brother, received it back from my brother, were kept.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I wonder why you sent your file of this situation to the Ethics Commissioner.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I have sent it to the Ethics Commissioner, Irene, because I really believe in transparency. I believe in accountability. I can tell you with everything in me, the women who spoke today, these are the same women I have been trying to help.

When you take a look at the stats of the number of women who are in Parliament—we're at 22%—and you take a look at the number of ethnic women and then you break that down into young women, we don't have very many, and there's a reason for that.

I've championed initiatives in my own riding. I've created organizations to empower women to talk about domestic abuse. I've created a Brampton--Springdale Youth Advisory Council to empower youth, to give them a voice.

It is these women who I am trying to help, and have spent my whole career and sacrificed my life for. That is why, Irene, in closing, I have sent this to the Ethics Commissioner to prove, to ensure that for the sake of the truth that I, my office, my staff have never been used in any way, shape, or form. My brother was the employer. We have the expertise in our office to be able to assist people. Constituents come in with these concerns. An outside agency was called. So I hope the Ethics Commissioner is going to investigate this and my name will be cleared.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm afraid time is up, Ms. Mathyssen.

Thank you, Dr. Dhalla.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

From our perspective and my perspective, this has been quite an experience. And Ruby, on behalf of this side of the table and on behalf of the government, I do want to indicate to you that I know that what you are going through is a struggle.

Let it be known to you that our intention here is simply to make sure that the recommendations we make from this committee, the work that we do on this committee, brings us to a better and more fulsome result at the end of the day for those people who come to our country under the auspices of becoming a Canadian, under the auspices of understanding what our Charter of Rights and Freedoms allows that they don't have in their countries.

I want to make that clear, because one of the concerns I have.... I've listened, and I have obviously read a lot about what you've gone through over the last number of days. And I must say, I do find it unfortunate that one of the things you've done in reaction to this is create, or at least from a communications perspective indicate, that there is some sort of witch hunt.

I am parliamentary secretary of this ministry. I take that personally. So I feel a little bit of what you're going through. I guess what I'm asking you to do is understand that this minister, this parliamentary secretary, this side of this table, and our government have no intention whatsoever of creating anything that you may have suggested. I just want to make that very, very clear from the outset.

One of the things I want to be clear on.... Even in your first remark, you indicated that you made a request to come to this committee. In fact, that is not the case. We requested that you come to this committee. I just want to be clear. I know that you're trying to drive the communications--

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I requested it for today--sorry.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

--and you and I have sat on lots of panels together, and I understand your abilities in terms of communicating. So I just want to be clear. We are trying to get to the facts here. Just saying that you came here because you requested....

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Sorry. I mentioned the word “today”.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Right. Okay. Thanks.

I have to ask you this, and I'll take what you're saying at face value in terms of wanting to better the system. When you heard and knew that these allegations were going to come forward publicly, why did you not go to the Ethics Commissioner before this became public? Why did you wait until this became a public issue before you requested the Ethics Commissioner, or even made anyone in your party aware of what was happening?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

First of all, Rick, I want to say thank you for your comments. You're an individual I have a lot of respect for on the other side of the House. We've worked very closely together since I've been elected.

I have two points. First of all, you talked about wanting to make reforms. It's something I greatly believe in. The country has been obsessed with the Dhalla case, but there are thousands of other vulnerable workers out there--we must never lose sight of that--who are going through situations that perhaps are true and need to be verified and rectified.

I was made aware of these allegations for the first time 15 months after these women had left the home, and who I have had limited interaction with, by a Toronto Star reporter about a week--not even a week, about five or six days--before the report came out.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I'm just going to ask you....

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra, let her finish.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

He asked for verification, Rick, in terms of providing proof, because the manner in which the questions were presented through e-mail were all directly related to me, saying that I own the clinic, saying that it was my home. You know, it was all Ruby, Ruby, Ruby, because all the allegations had been directed at Ruby. We asked for the opportunity to provide this individual with the appropriate facts, because those were just allegations that were false and unsubstantiated. And you know as well as I do, Rick, that when you're in public life, people can say anything they want--

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Sure they can.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

--so I actually provided....

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I don't deny that. I don't deny that.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Sorry, I'm just giving you the full information, Rick.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I know, but I have seven minutes. You have to go quick.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

We provided them with information, and I thought that was substantial proof for refuting all these allegations, because we had documents.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

So what you're saying is that you answered questions from a reporter and then did nothing after.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

No, because they were allegations that were being made.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Fair enough.

Very quickly, this is a copy of the request for the work permit. It's online. You can see it. It's a public document. Your mother filled in the top portion. Ms. Tongson filled in this portion. Your brother filled in this portion.

Is this your handwriting?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I haven't seen that document. Sorry.

No, it is not.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Very quickly, one of the other things you indicated was that both ladies were not here illegally. We don't question that. The Minister of Immigration does not question that. What is in question is whether they were working in your mother's home illegally. That's what's at question here. Please understand that if they were in your home illegally, that's what is at stake here.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Rick, I was not the employer and I am not the sponsor.