Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 12th, 2009

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Which ones?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

There is an issue with caregivers getting their landed status, needing to have 24 months of work within three particular years. In cases where women haven't achieved that 24 months of full employment, they are not eligible to get the permanent residency they need.

That really hit home to me as an individual when I saw the comments that were being made in the media, and I read about the Globe and Mail article, stating that department officials had given assurances to these women that their qualifying time for permanent residency will be met for the duration of time that they spent at the Dhalla home.

It's obviously a huge issue if the department is also discussing it with these particular women to get permanent residency into Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Dr. Dhalla.

Ms Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Ms. Dhalla.

You've been very clear in your remarks, I believe, that there should be rule changes in place, very specific rule changes. We've heard this for a number of years, to be quite frank. So would you support things like a transparent impartial appeal process, dispute mechanism, removing the mobility restrictions in regard to caregivers? Should they be allowed to live outside the employer's home? And would you say that caregivers should come to Canada as permanent residents, instead of temporary workers?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I think there are a lot of changes that need to be made, and I can tell you for the past week I've been inundated with phone calls from every advocacy organization across the country. In particular, I am referring to the Canadian Caregivers Association, but many other support groups, not only for the caregivers but also for the employers. There are victims on all sides.

I hope we can come up with recommendations that can be implemented immediately to ensure that there is effective change, so that people are no longer victims, and people don't have to make allegations that may be false, unsubstantiated, for the purpose of gaining residency in Canada.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Do you believe that many caregivers are indeed victimized?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I think there are caregivers who are victimized, and also there are employers who are victimized. I met an employer on my first day out after being under siege for five days straight. I went out for dinner and the waiter came up to me at the restaurant and told me to stay strong. He wanted to share his personal story.

He was an employer, and he told me a story about how he and his wife, who have four young kids, were actually exploited by one of the caregivers they had. They had to give them money, to ensure that the caregivers would follow up on all of the lists of suggestions that they had with the employer, and they had to pay out all of this money. He gave me his name and number and said that if I needed any help, or if I wanted him to come before committee or to help me in any way, to let him know.

Bringing it back home, I think that there are windows where the caregivers are victims, there are windows where the employers are victims, and there are also agencies that are doing good work, but then there are the agencies that are not. One bad apple creates a bad name for everyone.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Dr. Dhalla.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I give my time to Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There are so many questions I'd like to ask, but so little time. Perhaps you can dwell on the first question for a little bit. If this wasn't about vulnerable people and taking advantage of them, why not hire a Canadian company, like Molly Maid or something like that, to look after the home? But I don't have a lot of time for that.

You've stated things like you couldn't have possibly been in Toronto because you were flying from Ottawa. I took the flight from Toronto to Ottawa yesterday at 9:10 and I was standing in my office at 10:30, so I do think you could have been in two places at once.

I'm very concerned. You said that everybody who's ever come to your house has been treated with love and respect and that it's a wonderful environment. You said that the lady who was working there.... One of the brief moments that you ever had an opportunity to go home, you witnessed them sitting on the couch, your mother had cooked them a nice meal, and maybe they were watching an episode of Survivor together. It's a loving time. But they only stayed for eleven days in this tremendous environment, this wonderful, loving environment, and they left on good terms.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Give her time to answer the question. You're running out of time, Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Can you balance that out for me, why somebody who is being treated so lovingly in such a wonderful environment and being paid, I assume, a fair wage—because we know you've always championed that—would leave in eleven days?

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

You know what, the woman who left after eleven days was repeatedly asked for her papers, again and again and again by my mother. Every time she went home on the weekend, she said she would bring the papers back, proving she was on an open work permit. She did not bring the papers. She was asked a second time, and she stated to my mother, “When I come back, I will definitely bring my papers”. And when this persistence continued, apparently on the 19th in the morning, she woke up and told my mom that she was going to go to work at the hospital. And my mom said, “Hospital?” She said, “Yes, I have a relative and I got a job at the hospital.”

I don't know, Dean, how many employers these women have been through in their 24 months, but I can tell you that they were treated with love, with care, compassion, and respect.

And if I can just add in closing, Mr. Tilson, anyone who has been to my home will see the accommodations these caregivers lived in. It is a beautiful basement apartment—1,500 square feet, furnished with a 60-inch flat-screen TV, mahogany furniture, beautiful carpets, state-of-the-art technology, and a kitchen—all for the caregivers to live in by themselves, because there are only three people in my house: me, my mother, and my brother. I'm usually in Ottawa, my brother is usually at work, and my mom is at home by herself.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Dr. Dhalla.

I want to thank you for coming this morning, and Mr. Levitt as well. We may ask you to come back another time. We'll see how things go.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

Chair, if I could just add a very brief comment, you're inviting me back, and it will be a pleasure to come back—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Well, no, I haven't invited you back.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

If you ever do....

But regarding the other instances or 29 other cases we've heard about, and the hundreds of others, I hope we also get a chance, as parliamentarians, to hear their stories.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Dr. Dhalla.

This meeting will be adjourned until Thursday at 9 a.m. Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.