Evidence of meeting #17 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was caregivers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you so much to our witnesses for coming. I really appreciate that.
Ms. Mason, have you received any threats since the media started reporting on these very serious allegations against Ruby Dhalla, or are you aware of any person related to this situation who has received any threats?
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Are you aware of any cases of employers confiscating the passports of temporary workers, as has been alleged in these allegations against Ruby Dhalla? Do you think the police should have been involved in getting these passports back for Ms. Tongson?
Executive Director, Intercede
That usually would have been the next step. Yes, we've had situations in which staff actually accompanied caregivers to the police to have them make that report and then go to the house to retrieve documents. We have not had 100% success in terms of that. In fact, I recall a case only two months ago in which the police actually went in, and the employer stated that they didn't have the documents; they only had copies. I remember saying to the officer, “Well, in order to have the copies, they probably must have had the original at one point.” Nonetheless, that caregiver had to go through the process of reapplying to several places to replace the documents.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Mr. Chair, I would like to share my time. Thank you.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Thank you again for coming to our committee.
This is actually not a question for just Ms. Mason, because there are other organizations around here as well. What are the pressures on caregivers to work illegally when they arrive in Canada? I ask that question to Ms. Beboso, Ms. Quash, or Ms. Mason. Any one of you can pick this up.
Member, Migrante Ontario
The pressure lies on these women, for example, who come here and have families in the Philippines that depend on them--
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
No, my question is about working illegally. They are here already.
Member, Migrante Ontario
Yes, they are here already, and they're working illegally. They need to be constantly working because they are supporting families in the Philippines. Sometimes that's why they choose to work illegally. It's because they need income coming in.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
What are the pressures on them? Oh, that's the pressure. Right.
What else is there?
Member, Migrante Ontario
They sometimes have to pay agencies to come into this country. They owe so much money and they need to pay back that money, so they have to be working constantly for that reason as well. Those are the kinds of pressures.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
The second question is for all three of you. And Ms. Quash, please feel free to answer, because you haven't had the chance yet.
Would caregivers ever face any repercussions with discussing their negative experiences publicly?
Member, Migrante Ontario
Yes. I've been involved in the organization since 2000, and we've seen three deportation cases that we walked through the system. If they go through the black letter of the law, then they will take the side that this individual violated the law and therefore they need to be deported. Under the program, any violation of the law can result in deportation. So even in the public light, people can pursue the individual, and the live-in caregiver can be deported.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Ms. Mason, I have two very quick questions and then I want to give Mr. Del Mastro an opportunity to ask a couple.
Ms. Dhalla actually claimed on Tuesday that she had never spoken to you other than referring you to her brother. How do you feel about that? It's more a question of your personal integrity.
Executive Director, Intercede
How do I feel about it? I don't care, frankly. It's her word and she has a conscience. This is one of the occasions when I wish the childhood story of Pinocchio was true.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Thank you. You see, I know exactly what you're referring to.
The other question I have, perhaps Ms. Quash or Ms. Beboso, either one of you could answer. It was confirmed by Ms. Dhalla that the two individuals were paid in cash, and one of the difficulties we have when we're in a situation like this—and there are lots of difficulties I have with that—is the fact that they would not be paying or receiving OHIP coverage. Is that one of the things you let the caregiver know about, to ensure they are being paid properly? Because the difficulties that surround that are, for example, OHIP coverage may not be available to them because they wouldn't have been able to achieve it through the income that they have.
Executive Director, Intercede
Yes. That is one of the things we point out also in the orientation.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you very much.
I am very concerned with some of the things that I've seen here today, frankly. I think I've seen intimidation tactics on display right here at this committee, and I want to thank these three ladies for their courage. You are representing people in our society who are frankly the most vulnerable, people often without status, people who are often working for people who are quite wealthy and have high-powered lawyers, and they can pick up the phone and get them behind them.
On Tuesday we heard two distinctly different testimonies. The opposition leader came out immediately and said he believed one was absolutely accurate, despite the fact that Ms. Dhalla couldn't remember if that's where she lived or not. In fact she had to be asked three times if that's where she lived. Apparently that was more believable than vulnerable witnesses who came forward who gave dates, times, exact people they spoke to, exact conversations they were involved in.
If vulnerable people in this society can't come to this Parliament and find somebody who will defend them and somebody who will stand for them, isn't that disturbing? Isn't that something that you fear? Who can these vulnerable people turn to here in Canada if they can't turn to elected officials, the very people who are elected to stand for rights here in Canada, for the Charter of Rights of Freedoms? If they can't turn here and not be intimidated, where can they turn? That's my question.
