Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 14th, 2009

[Agatha Mason]

I agree with the fact that the agency should be regulated. The problem, however, is that a lot of the caregivers we see who complain about the high fees that they pay--and some of them pay up to $10,000--have no receipt. There's no proof, because it's cash in most instances. So in terms of being able to get that money back, I don't know how we'd be able to go about doing it. There is actually no proof. It's just word of mouth. We believe them because the stories have been very consistent.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, very much for coming here. I know this is a very intimidating environment sometimes, and I appreciate your being here.

I'm going to direct my questions to Ms. Mason. How often does your office receive complaints from temporary workers, and what are the most common complaints that you hear?

[Agatha Mason]

The vast majority of clients come into our office because they have complaints. Several other agencies help caregivers, and they usually help them fill out forms to extend permits. Most of the caregivers we see come because they have some irregularity regarding their immigration documents—misrepresentation, for example. A lot of them come because of violations of the Employment Standards Act.

In most instances, we try to resolve the issue if we can. In some instances, we make referrals to other agencies. In some instances, we help them retrieve documents, with the help of the police. In other instances, we provide them with guidance on making claims through the Ministry of Labour.

As to categorizing and looking at what the most common violation would be, I would think it's people who are working long hours and not being paid adequately. Most of them, for example, work on statutory holidays 12 hours a day and only get paid for the regular 40 hours per week. Most of them don't receive overtime.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Tongson, one of the caregivers who testified on Tuesday, told the media that she was concerned because she'd given her passport and documents to Ms. Ruby Dhalla, and that she'd called to ask for help. Are you aware of this call from Ms. Tongson?

[Agatha Mason]

Yes, I'm aware of the call.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

How were you involved, if you were involved at all?

[Agatha Mason]

This is a copy of the Bell phone bill that indicates the call was made from my office. I was the actual person who made the call and spoke with Ruby at the time.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

What was the substance of your conversation?

[Agatha Mason]

I called her because I received a phone call from a woman who sounded very upset on the phone. In fact, she was crying. Usually, staff do not deal with crisis calls and caregiver calls. I usually take the call and treat it as a crisis call. In this situation she was crying, and she gave a lot of information pertaining to the situation in her workplace. Based on my determination, I got her permission to make a phone call. She gave me the number in Ottawa; I made the call and had a conversation.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

A conversation with Ms. Dhalla?

[Agatha Mason]

I had a conversation with Ms. Dhalla relating to allegations about breaking the law, essentially. As I said to her, when we get calls from employees who say their personal documents were taken away for whatever reason and intent, we have a standard response. We first ask the employee, in this situation the caregiver, to ask the employer to give the documents back. She said she had asked for the documents on several occasions and was refused. The next step is to ask for permission to make a call on behalf of the person. She gave me permission, and I made the phone call. As far as I know, based on my phone call, the documents were returned the following day. To me, that was the end of the story, until it resurfaced in the press a year later.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Ms. Dhalla told the committee that she could not understand why the caregivers would wait 15 months to come forward with their information. Do you have any insight into that? Why would they wait 15 months?

[Agatha Mason]

I must say, before I respond to any questions, that we're talking about something that happened a year ago. Actually, my call was on May 29 last year, so I want to point out that moving a situation out of context makes it hypothetical. I just want to say that as a broad statement before responding specifically.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We have a point of order.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Does Ms. Mason have permission from the person she's talking about to release these documents? Having documents, as an agency or as a member of Parliament, you must guard them, and you cannot speak about them unless you have authorization. Chair, on a point of order, through you, can we find out if Ms. Mason has that authorization from the individual she's talking about?

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

On the same point?

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

That's right.

Ms. Mason, you understand that—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, you're speaking to me, not to the witness.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Chair, Ms. Mason has made a comment in reference to one particular case, mentioning the member of Parliament for Brampton—Springdale, Ruby Dhalla. She has mentioned only that case. Is she concerned about the fact that...? Perhaps a fair question from this committee would be to—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I know where you're going. Mr. Karygiannis raised an issue of privacy. You're going somewhere else.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

It's a privacy issue as well, because if she's going to make public one employer, is her next step to make public all the employers that she's called with complaints?

Is that what you're going to do, or are you going to talk just about one particular case?

[Agatha Mason]

I don't have to talk about this case—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Mason, I would rather just deal with the members.