Evidence of meeting #17 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was caregivers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Mr. Bevilacqua is in the middle of his point, and we'll let him continue.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Mr. Chair, these folks are here at our request. They're presenting at our request to talk about this issue overall. Ms. Mason is free to speak about the issues she wants to speak to. I do not think it is our responsibility to try to intimidate these people while we're sitting here trying to work through this issue. I don't accept that. I think as we move through this, we need to keep that in mind.
We want to move through and do things properly.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Okay, Mr. Karygiannis, it may be a point, but it's not a procedural point. I don't think the chairman is in a position to comment on something that's not a procedural point. I'm therefore going to rule that it is not a point of order.
Ms. Mason, you may continue.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
No, sir, I'm not debating your ruling. It's just a word of caution. You might want to tell the witness, just caution the witness—
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
No, I'm not doing that. Enough has been said.
Ms. Mason, you can continue.
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Intercede
When I introduced myself, did I say I had no ambition to be a politician? I needed to state that.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We're going to start the clock again. If you wish to answer the question that was asked by Ms. Mathyssen, you may. If not....
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Ms. Mathyssen, try to be brief. We seem to have lost all control of time here.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
I was asking why a caregiver would wait 15 months in order to come forward. Do you have any insight into that?
9:50 a.m.
Executive Director, Intercede
I think the most appropriate person to answer that question would be the caregiver, but I can give you my take, based on what I know. As far as I learned, there was a forum in Toronto. I wasn't at the forum, actually. I was at another forum with caregivers at that particular time.
From my understanding, at that forum where several caregivers were present, whoever was conducting or chairing the meeting invited caregivers to come forward and talk about their experience as caregivers. This particular caregiver came forward and related a story that involved a public figure.
I must point out, though, that prior to this whole political melee, I had no idea that the person involved was of that stature, a politician. I remember the name only because it was the name of a birthstone. That's it. I didn't know who she was.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to continue to pursue this line. On Tuesday we had just under two and a half hours of testimony from Ms. Dhalla, Ms. Tongson, and Ms. Gordo. There's no question that the two sides do not have any harmony whatsoever in terms of what happened with respect to the situation in the Dhalla home.
I understand now, after Tuesday's meetings, that the leader of the Liberal Party has determined that Ms. Dhalla's side of the story is the one that he's going to pursue and believe. I think it was a little early for anyone to make that kind of determination.
And Ms. Mason, Ms. Beboso, and Ms. Quash, I really appreciate your being here this morning to assist us with the greater good. We're trying to make sure that the report we present to the House is one that will assist you in your work and assist us in making sure that the rules and legislation we have in place are good for the work that you do and the folks you take care of.
Ms. Mason, I was the one who asked the question specifically to Ms. Dhalla about her conversation with you. She indicated to me that the only call she'd ever had with you was to redirect you to speak with her brother. I understand from what you said this morning that this is simply not the case, that you in fact did have a conversation with Ms. Dhalla specifically about the passports that were being held by the Dhallas.
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Intercede
I just want to say that I was not privy to Tuesday's hearing. I only got a snippet on the news, what everybody else saw. I have not had a conversation with any of the parties who were involved in the hearing.
But to answer your question, I clearly recall that, as I do routinely when employers break the law, I gave her clear directions that she was breaking the law and she had 24 hours in which to return the documents. I remember that clearly.
As far as I remember, the documents were returned the following day.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
So nowhere in that conversation did Ms. Dhalla indicate to you that you should be speaking with her brother.
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Intercede
No. In fact it was the opposite. I had a conversation with her brother and I was directed to her. I remember that clearly because we are a small agency with a very tight budget, and I am always hesitant to make long-distance calls, so I made a local call first.
I have the numbers. I have a 905 number in Mississauga. Then I had a call to Ottawa.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Ms. Mason, when you spoke with Ruby Dhalla's brother, did he indicate to you that he had full and complete responsibility for that file?
9:55 a.m.
Executive Director, Intercede
No. I spoke to him. In fact when I made that call, the caregiver had indicated.... I asked her routinely who were the adults in the house, what was the job she was doing. She indicated that she was taking care of an elderly woman. She mentioned some of the chores she was doing. Some things were appalling to me, even if I thought I had heard it all. But I don't want to put any subjective spin on this. I just want to stick to the facts.
