Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 11th, 2009

[Allan Nichols]

Absolutely.

You mentioned Japan. Ms. Bader-Johnston, the current president of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Japan, has expressed concern about this. She has expressed particular concern with the fact that this bill puts the onus for this problem entirely on the woman in the sense that if she's pregnant and her children are born abroad, then if her daughter works for an executive office, whether it be in Japan or somewhere else, and decides to have a child, in order for that child to become Canadian she has to leave her position and return to Canada to have the child. For an executive, that's not a very suitable response.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Tell me about her. Is she Canadian? Is she a successful businesswoman?

[Allan Nichols]

Patricia Bader-Johnston has lived in various countries around the world and operates several businesses in Japan. She is currently the president of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Japan.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

But she is Canadian?

[Allan Nichols]

She is a Canadian, that's right.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

And her parents are Canadian?

[Allan Nichols]

Her parents are Canadian, that's correct.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

And she will never consider herself anything other than—

[Allan Nichols]

She will never consider herself anything other than Canadian.

Her organization is considered the face of Canada by the Government of Japan. When there's a large festival or something to do with Canada, they invariably invite our chamber of commerce in Japan. We're seeing this not only in Japan, but also around the world, whether it be the Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Hong Kong; the Canada Arizona Business Council in Phoenix, Arizona; Network Canada, a social organization in London; or the Canadian Chamber of Commerce in Switzerland. All of these organizations are expressing similar concerns about this bill—and they are all considered the face of Canada.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

And it limits the woman—

[Allan Nichols]

Absolutely.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

—because then they would have to decide whether to have the kid. They have to fly back—

[Allan Nichols]

They have to fly back to Canada. And if she's an executive, then it's not reasonable to expect her to leave her position for one to two months to come back to Canada simply to have a child.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Right. And you're suggesting that it's really a matter of their residency, their connections, in many other countries.

Do you know of other countries that actually do it this way—the limited one or two years?

[Allan Nichols]

The United States, Australia, and, as far as I know, New Zealand, have similar provisions within their citizenship acts.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So it would allow Patricia, for example, if her baby were born abroad, to say this is the kind of connection I have. Then if she were American, her kid would have no problem.

[Allan Nichols]

In the United States, the provision requires an individual to live for five years or longer after the age of 14 within the country. In Australia, it's two years regardless of the age.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So it's really not where you're born--

[Allan Nichols]

It's not where you're born.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

--it's your connection to the country.

That makes sense, because you are talking to quite a lot of MPs here who were not born in Canada. You know, we're members of Parliament--

[Allan Nichols]

Right. Obviously you have deep connections to Canada.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Absolutely.

So that would be one way to change the rules. Another way is to maybe change how many generations and to remove that generations question, given that Canada needs lots of babies anyway. We are a big country; we need more children in this country. So we go out and ask people to emigrate to Canada.

It's absurd that on the one hand we ask you to come to Canada, because we need a bigger population, and on the other hand, all the grandchildren....

Anyway, you know where I was going on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Chow.

I inadvertently cut Monsieur St-Cyr off. I'm giving him two more minutes.

I apologize.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I am going to continue with something that Ms. Chow said at the end of her remarks.

The concept of citizenship was developed in the 19^th century for the most part, at a time when people travelled far less and citizenship implied fewer things. There were no social programs, nor was there a welfare state. Basically, citizenship boiled down to a title and a passport, in a way.

We can see the limits of this concept. Is a person's birthplace still relevant to assess citizenship? Some people are obviously connected to a particular country, but do not have citizenship, whereas others have no connection to the country that they have become a citizen of.

Should we not take another look at citizenship through the lens of the 21^st century and establish true criteria for assessing a person's connection to the country, rather than using arbitrary criteria such as place of birth?

[Allan Nichols]

It's certainly something that we would advocate the study of to review that process.