Evidence of meeting #32 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was long.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:45 a.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Partner, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
It doesn't. It takes three months just for the visa post to acknowledge that a decision has been made.
9:50 a.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Partner, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
Those three months are completely unnecessary.
I would also like to talk about the types of interviews that are done at the first stage at the visa post in Hong Kong. At the visa post in Hong Kong, many of the interviews are done over the phone, where credibility cannot be easily assessed.
There's no system in which they say, okay, this is what we're going to do: we're going to have you come into the room, we'll ask you questions, and these are the standard questions that will be asked.
You can't assess credibility over the phone. That's why there's a 50% refusal rate. That's why there is such a high positive determination at the IAD.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
Can I go now to the parents and grandparents? If they are in Canada, they should be allowed to work and have health care coverage. For those who are applying outside of Canada and who choose not to travel to Canada at that time, how long is it on average? Is it three, four, or five years?
9:50 a.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Partner, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
It's 32 months just to get the first stage approval. Then it goes to the visa post and that can take a year or two years.
9:50 a.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
So it takes three years just to get the sponsorship approved. Why?
9:50 a.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Partner, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
That's the question: why? When only 15,000 people are allowed in each year, that may be an answer.
9:50 a.m.
Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services
I think one of the standard responses is that spousal sponsorships are prioritized, and that is the reason it takes so long. But I don't think that would—
9:50 a.m.
Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services
Exactly, but that doesn't seem to justify the long wait time that exists.
I just want to say also that it is the submission of Parkdale that when a couple is denied a visa based on the bona fides of the relationship for something as trivial as age, we feel that such decisions should no longer be made at the visa office. The overseas processing manual should be changed in order to make sure that these things don't happen and stop families from being together.
This is even more important for new Canadians who are protected persons and convention refugees, because if their application to bring over a family member is denied, they in fact do not even have recourse to the appeal division. It's our submission that this be ended and that convention refugees and persons in need of protection who are applying for permanent residence should be able to appeal to the immigration appeal division if their sponsorship of a family member is refused.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Jennifer, I appreciate the emotion around this issue that you present in terms of the changes or advancements you'd like to see. Part of the reason we're doing this work in terms of hearings is to do that.
There's one thing, though, that you haven't addressed, as I noted in an e-mail you sent regarding a release on November 2, which said that “processing times for privately sponsored refugee in Nairobi have increased from 31 months three years ago to 42 months now; 24% of pending refugee dependant cases worldwide are in Nairobi; 30% of the pending privately sponsored worldwide are in Nairobi”. I'm quoting from your release.
Don't you think this is part of the reason that things take a lot longer in Nairobi, that it's just because when you look at the overall impact of the numbers, it's pretty obvious that we have a significant number of applications that have been sought out of the Nairobi office?
9:50 a.m.
Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services
No. I would actually not agree with you there, because if you look at, for instance, the visa office in India, in 2008 alone there were 5,778 applications, yet the rejection rate was not nearly as high as in Accra and Nairobi. I feel that this demonstrates an inconsistency that really does need to be rectified, and I would actually like—
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
No, thank you. I have only seven minutes, so you have to let me ask some questions.
My second question is this—
9:50 a.m.
An hon. member
[Inaudible--Editor]
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Mr. Karygiannis, don't go there. You did that. I had my finger on the button trying to stop you throughout your entire testimony, so don't go there.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I hope I haven't lost time based on that.
Jennifer, you haven't actually given any time to whether immigration fraud is actually occurring there. You haven't actually given time in your remarks to the issues of, for example, identification and lack thereof that people bring to the table, or potentially do not bring to the table, for their cases to be processed. That obviously has a significant impact. The fact that those are not brought to the table obviously impedes any officer's ability to process.
I note that you haven't brought that to the table in terms of addressing immigration fraud. The fact is that it does exist, and part of the reason these processes end up taking somewhat longer certainly is due to the fact that we want to ensure that fraud is not taking place.
9:55 a.m.
Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services
But I will bring your attention again to the 40% rate of appeal acceptance at the ADR. I believe this demonstrates that the decisions the visa officers are making are not correct at least 40% of the time. In terms of the feeling that there is fraud in certain cases and discrepancy between certain officers, I feel that this is really a demonstration that there's a problem there.
Why is it that there is a feeling that there is over 50% fraud from the Hong Kong office versus 3% from the Taipei office? It doesn't make sense. Why is that discrepancy there?
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Well, it's because people are doing their job.
But I'll turn my time over to Ms. Grewal.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, ladies, for your time and your presentations.
When the Liberals were in power, more than 900,000 people were waiting in line. The wait times were about 58 months and the system was fully clogged. Now the wait times are less and we are clearing up the backlog.
I want to talk about fake marriages, marriages of convenience. I represent an ethnic riding, and almost two dozen people have come to my office to say their spouses left when they got to the airport. Regarding marriages of convenience, I think they submitted about 12,000 signatures to Parliament about one year ago. I think the officers in those missions are using their due diligence, because there is a big problem with marriages of convenience in our community.
Ms. Long, have you ever worked at a Canadian mission abroad?
November 3rd, 2009 / 9:55 a.m.
Barrister and Solicitor, Partner, Long Mangalji LLP, As an Individual
I have not, and I would like to address your comments about marriages of convenience. Absolutely there are marriages of convenience, but the issue is, how do you determine that?
If people are just called on the phone, a person who has been trained by a fraudulent consultant on what they are supposed to say can easily answer questions, so the officer is likely to determine it's not a marriage of convenience. In cases where they apply by themselves, where it's a genuine relationship, and where they have not prepared for the interview, they are more likely to give answers that lead the officer to think it is a marriage of convenience.
We need to examine how applications are assessed in the first instance so false marriages aren't allowed to come through and genuine marriages are processed accordingly. Asking about age is not appropriate.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Because the officer is using his due diligence, he has to be very careful about these marriages of convenience. What questions do you think the officer should pose to the people in the missions?
9:55 a.m.
Law Student, Caseworker, Immigration and Refugee Law Division, Parkdale Community Legal Services
I think they should focus more on the substance of the relationship. For example, knowledge of and familiarity with each other's families is something of substance that Canadians would understand. However, to wait so long and be refused based on your age is discriminatory and just doesn't make sense.
