Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 1st, 2009

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I get the impression that, in the case in question, counsel for the asylum seeker requested at the outset that the language of procedure be English. And the documents were then provided in English. That's the rule; that's just common sense. Then they decided to change languages. I believe it is up to the claimant—a Spanish speaker—to choose the language of procedure.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

He is entitled to proceed in French all the same.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

He decided at the outset to proceed in English, then decided something else for reasons of which we are unaware. Ultimately, we must ensure that, on the whole, counsel do not use the Official Languages Act in the judicial system to change the translation of all documents a number of times. There have to be reasonable guidelines for applying the Official Languages Act in the context of legal proceedings.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

The problem arose before that, minister.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Monsieur St-Cyr.

Ms. Chow is next.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

The Hong Kong rejection rate for spousal application, as you mentioned, is 50%. Are we saying that half of the spousal applications, these marriages, are fake marriages, that they are cheaters? Is there a consultant network teaching people how to get married, etc.? What percentage of these cases are then overturned by the Immigration Appeal Board?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'll defer the question to Madame Deschênes, except to say that globally, I think you know very well, Ms. Chow, we do have a problem of marriages of convenience, commercialized fake marriages, to get into Canada. I saw in India the wall of shame that you've probably heard about, with fake marriage photos.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

But 50%, that's half.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'll let Madame Deschênes address that.

[Claudette Deschênes]

I would address it by saying it's a trend we're starting to see, and the department is concerned that there's organized fraud around that movement. In terms of what the ID is doing and so on, we're starting to look at that, but the great majority of cases of refusals right now are not proceeding to try to appeal.

I repeat, we're looking at that. It's a new trend, but we are concerned that it's an organized movement.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Is the Prime Minister going to be addressing that when he's in Hong Kong? He'll be there in a few days.

Never mind.

What percentage of foreign credentials recognitions are actually done before the person arrives? I know that has been something we've been pushing for. We've been saying get them recognized; get the training done, get all the paperwork done. Do you have that percentage?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, we don't, and that's part of one of the objectives of the pan-Canadian framework that was announced yesterday. It is to have better information. Obviously, the Nova Scotia dentists licensing body doesn't share with CIC their acceptance rate, or when people applied. Within the pan-Canadian framework, there will be much better information sharing, so hopefully we'll be able to take a look in a couple of years' time and see what the acceptance rates and processing times are for the 440 licensing bodies across the country, and how many of those folks applied from abroad.

I can tell you that we have had some success. I think very few people are likely getting their credentials recognized before they arrive in Canada, but we're starting to move the curve ahead by several months, by encouraging people to apply before arrival.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

One of the recommendations coming from the committee is to provide some financial incentives to the provinces, so they can offer internships for the doctors. Your colleague from the U.S., even if he gets his credentials recognized, he still can't practice here, because there's no internship. The hospital was saying we don't have money to offer more internships, etc. Is there any kind of pilot project that you can move toward that area?

Some of the small businesses and medium-sized businesses say if you want them to mentor people, it takes them time and energy and it takes a lot of work, so you need to provide them with some kind of loan or something, so they can give the new employees their first Canadian experience.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I agree. In global terms, internships, mentorships, and apprenticeships are part of the way we can help integrate people in a regulated profession to step up their skill levels to Canadian standards, or to get licensed. I can tell you that in terms of providing bridge funding for skills upgrades, new permanent residents already qualify for some of the federally supported student financing programs. I know Minister Finley is looking at ways in which this could perhaps be expanded.

I'm going off message here to say that I personally think the federal government, the public service, should emulate some of the progressive private sector employers—those who are partnering, for instance, with TRIEC, in Toronto—in opening up opportunities for mentorship. I can tell you our own ministry has been very progressive in this respect with our student refugee program, where we brought in 20 student refugees, I think, from WUSC—World University Service of Canada—to have internships in our ministry, and a number of them have now been hired as full-scale members of the public service.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Chow.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the things we talked a little bit about here was the new study guide, Minister. I know that through your office we're actually working hard this morning to make sure that each member of the committee has one before we leave today so that we actually get a chance. This one's warm. It's just hot off the press. I'll make sure everyone gets one.

The minister is doing everything he can to make sure we all have a copy before we leave this morning. I wanted to thank you for that, Minister, and also to give you the opportunity. I know a couple of my colleagues have a couple of questions, so for the sake of being able to get those questions out, perhaps you could just address it. The fact that we have this document put together.... You are to be congratulated for the work and your ministry is to be congratulated for the work that they did on it.

Perhaps you can comment just for a minute about the content and the intent over the next couple of months for distribution.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

In terms of the content, the intent of this was part of our citizenship action plan to invest a greater sense of meaning, of the importance of citizenship, and also to deepen the knowledge of the symbols, values, and institutions that are rooted in Canadian history. It's not just for new Canadians, but for all Canadians.

I view the citizenship part of my mandate as being relevant to the native-born Canadian citizens and deepening for them an appreciation of Canadian citizenship. One of the things I've been most encouraged about in the response to this guide is the demands from schools and school boards and libraries to make this available to young native-born Canadians as well as new Canadians.

I should also mention that it was designed following broad consultations with a blue-ribbon panel of historians, thinkers, journalists, and others from across the political, demographic, and geographic spectrum. I'm very pleased to see the positive response it has received. All MPs will be receiving a letter shortly asking them how many copies they'd like, within reason. We can't break the bank in terms of printing.

I can tell you that public demand has been amazing. I think in the first week we had 85,000 downloads or so from our website of this guide.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I'll turn my time over to Mr. Calandra and to Mr. Young, but I thought you made a really interesting comment. A bestseller in Canada is 20,000 copies, and their first print is going to be 500,000. You'd have to argue that this is one of the bestsellers in the history of Canada.

[An hon. member]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Minister, we strayed from the Auditor General's report. The other day we were in front of the heritage committee. As you know, my parents came to this country in the late fifties from Italy, and I was called bush league by my NDP counterpart on that committee because I expressed my relatives' and my uncle's feelings on this Italian apology bill that is currently before Parliament and how they disagreed with it.

You made some really good points, but I wonder if you could comment briefly on the department's position with respect to the Italian apology. It mirrors quite coincidentally with my own feelings on that.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Well, thanks.

I did appear before the heritage committee on this issue last week, Chair. I can reinforce that in 1990 former Prime Minister Mulroney made what he characterized as a full and unqualified apology on behalf of the people and the Government of Canada to Canadians of Italian origin for the injustices that occurred at the time of the internment of Canadians—the 632 Canadians of Italian origin—between 1940 and 1943. In addition, our government has provided $5 million of specified funding under the community historic recognition program for projects involving education and commemoration of the Italian internment experience. Those funds will be dispersed based on the advice of a panel of eminent Canadians of Italian origin.

I find some of the politics on this a little unfortunate, because previous governments had many opportunities to act on this and other issues of wartime internment or immigration restriction measures. They chose not to do so. Fine, that was their choice. To then turn around and criticize the Mulroney government for making the apology and our government for providing real funds—$5 million—for commemorative projects is unfortunate.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Calandra.

Ms. Mendes, you have the floor.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

With your permission, minister, I would like to do a little follow-up to what Mr. Bevilacqua tried to discuss with regard to nation building in Canada, as well as your comments on citizenship.

You believe this concerns all Canadians, not just newcomers. I entirely agree with you. In fact, it seems to me that we often fail in our duty to provide information to our longstanding citizens. I am virtually certain that, if the vast majority of Canadians had to take the citizenship examination, the vast majority would fail it, including those who are currently in school and studying the history of Canada. I agree: it should really affect the entire population of Canada.

I would nevertheless like to note a few deficiencies. Perhaps this information can eventually be added to the guide, including mention of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I think it is important to include it, as well as the fact that Canada was one of the major players in the establishment of the International Criminal Court, that it was also one of the major promoters of the concept of responsibility for protecting states, one of the major instigators of the anti-personnel mines treaty. I think those are among the major accomplishments that Canadians can boast of in the world and that should also be known to all Canadian citizens.

Sometimes I'm saddened to see the extent to which our citizens do not even understand how Parliament operates. They don't understand at all the difference between Parliament and the provincial parliamentary assemblies.

These are all deficiencies that I believe we should remedy in a guide for all citizens, not just newcomers to Canada.

I'd like to have your comments on that subject.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you.

The goal, madam, was to increase the knowledge of Canadians of all origins of our systems, traditions and democratic values. We cannot take it for granted that people understand them.

You noted certain aspects on which you would like there to be more information. I can tell you that the guide obviously includes references to the importance of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It also summarizes, on page 8, some of the fundamental freedoms contained in the Charter. On page 24, we talk about Canada's international role in a number of organizations, including the UN, peacekeeping and other areas.

I believe everyone has ideas about items that should be added. However, it was impossible to have a 100-page guide. We had to make certain choices to limit guide content. This is not an encyclopedia of the entire history of Canada; it is a summary, but if you have any suggestions on items that should be added, we are open to future revisions.