Evidence of meeting #14 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Coordinator, Colour of Poverty, Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic
Again, it depends on the case. It can be very long for some people. On the other hand, if that is the time required to determine a complicated case, then it is fair.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Well, how do you decide which is complicated and which is not? Right now we have two sets of dates, eight days and then within 60 days a decision has to be made. Of course in the first initial interview that's data collecting.
If you look at other countries, they actually have even fewer days. So I just wanted to look at that. Your organization actually, when the bill was first introduced, did have some very positive comments.
I would like you to also comment on that part first, and then we can discuss other issues.
Coordinator, Colour of Poverty, Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic
We do need a system that processes people quickly, because people need to get on with the settlement process. In that sense, we agree that time is important to save.
On the other hand, we do not want to sacrifice time for fairness, and we don't want to sacrifice the chance to present full evidence in the interests of, again, time and accelerating the removal process. These are people who risk death if they are removed without proper grounds.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
There is a refugee appeal division. How would that, then, improve the asylum system?
Coordinator, Colour of Poverty, Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic
We applaud the refugee appeal division, as I said in the beginning of my presentation, but if everybody doesn't have access to that appeal division, then it doesn't serve the purpose it was mandated to serve in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.
Also, if the members of the division are politically appointed, then there again we lose the ability of that division to make high-quality decisions.
Coordinator, Colour of Poverty, Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic
That is why we think a merit-based selection process is key, and we wish that would be included in the bill as well.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
It is. The IRB chair actually indicated how he would select the members of the IRB division, which will do the initial interview, the collection of data. These people will be well trained so that they know what they are doing. Again, they will be mandated by the IRB to help them, in the beginning, in the initial interview of these claimants. With lots more people there...because otherwise people have to wait for 10 years. We have somebody in the Chinese community who is still here after 10 years, after appeals, after going to court. He is still here.
I don't think you would probably like that to happen.
Conservative
Coordinator, Colour of Poverty, Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic
Is that to me?
Coordinator, Colour of Poverty, Metro Toronto Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic
Clearly 10 years is excessive, but that often has to do with the abilities of the people judging the case. When you have civil servants who are dependent on their jobs, serving as the interviewers, we don't think that is going to speed things up. In fact, it will likely lead to more mistakes, which is the experience in other countries where civil servants have performed this function.
Again, these are people who are dependent on their employers' decisions, and that will enter into the determination process. That will delay things further, because appeals will be made.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Thank you very much. I think our time has come to an end, although the bells aren't ringing yet.
Mr. Clerk, I understand that we have to be there at 5:30.
I want to thank Mr. Goldberg, Ms. Froc, and Ms. Valiani for taking the time to come to the committee this afternoon and give us your thoughts. Thank you very much.
This meeting is adjourned until 6 o'clock tonight.