Evidence of meeting #18 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was appeal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Member, Legislative Review Committee, Quebec Immigration Lawyers Association (AQAADI)
Yes, absolutely. There are claims that have been found to be fabrications based on a false story.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
Whether it is eight days or 28 days, there are still individuals who do that.
Ms. Kennedy, it strikes me that it would be very difficult to reform the system in any way, shape, or form that would satisfy all the criteria you have in order to make it a system—I don't want to say that you could “trust”—for the individuals you represent, the lesbian and gay community, that would give them the confidence that their rights would be protected.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
My question is basically could we ever create any type of system that would give you the confidence that the lesbian and gay community would be protected? It's a pretty simple question.
Executive Director, Egale Canada
Yes. I'm sorry, I misunderstood how you framed it.
A fair system would be a very good one.
Executive Director, Egale Canada
It would be one that is open and inclusive.
We have done an in-depth analysis of every single claim in Canada since 2004 based on sexual orientation.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
I'm sorry, I have a minute left, and so I'm going to interrupt you.
I'm just looking for specifics.
Executive Director, Egale Canada
The timing would be huge. If it was left at 28 days, we would be happy with that. We think eight days and 60 days are not doable.
Conservative
Paul Calandra Conservative Oak Ridges—Markham, ON
Eight days aren't good, but if we perhaps stretched it to 28 days, that could potentially be good. There's some room.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but perhaps you're also suggesting 60 days might be too quick.
Executive Director, Egale Canada
Nobody is happy with claims that go on for 19 months or 10 years. It doesn't serve anybody's purpose.
We have to look at a more efficient way of handling the claims in a fair and equitable manner. It perhaps means employing more adjudicators. It certainly means better training for the adjudicators.
Not every LGBT claim from Mexico is a false claim. I think these are stereotypes that we're putting on people, specifically the LGBT community.
Conservative
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
I would like to begin by reassuring my Conservative colleagues. Ms. Zambelli and myself agree that the issue of designated countries should not end up in the legislation. Ms. Zambelli was never one of my former employees. I wanted to reassure you in that regard.
Bloc
Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC
Let's move to more serious matters. As you are lawyers, I wanted to ask you about the provisions regarding the right to be represented by counsel at all stages, including during the interview process that is provided by law.
It seems unclear to me. Clause 8 deals with the minister's right to decide on who may or may not attend, specifically before the officials. Later on, under clause 23, we see that individuals can have representation before the board. That said, we do not know if that would include the interview itself. There are no details as to whether an individual could be represented by legal counsel or some other type of counsel.
First of all, do you have the same understanding as me of the fact that nothing in this legislation guarantees an individual's right to be accompanied by legal counsel at this stage? Second, if my interpretation is correct, do you believe that is inappropriate? Third, do you believe the committee should specifically include this point in the legislation?
Member, Legislative Review Committee, Quebec Immigration Lawyers Association (AQAADI)
Yes, there is an allusion or a veiled reference to the right to counsel at the interview. The phrase in section 23 in English is a “person who is the subject of Board proceedings”. In French, it's “devant la Commission”. In English, it's more clear that it could include the formalized interview process.
I think the right-to-counsel reference could be stronger. It is very important in the context of a bill like this, which takes away a lot of rights, that it is specifically and explicitly guaranteed that the person has the right to counsel at any formalized interview process, as well as, of course, at the hearings and before the appeal division.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for your contribution to the committee. I thank you for your presentations.
This meeting is adjourned until Thursday at 3:30 p.m.