Evidence of meeting #20 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was appeal.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
6:45 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
It's not often that I hear the Conservatives defending the Liberals. I should mark down the time. It's ten to seven. It's a spirit of cooperation.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We're getting out of hand here.
Mr. Dykstra, it's Ms. Chow's dime as long as she's talking about the bill in some way.
6:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
I just did rule on your behalf, and she's entitled to talk. She can make a statement. She can blather on as long as it's relevant to the bill.
Your time is fast approaching.
6:45 p.m.
NDP
Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON
On the humanitarian and compassionate grounds, do you agree that, like the lady you talked about from the Congo, if she gets confused or not sure whether she's a refugee or whether it should be on humanitarian grounds...is this an area wherein she should have a choice? If she goes into one stream, she should be able to switch to another stream. She may make a mistake and go in one area and discover that she really should be declaring through another stream. Is this an area that you support?
6:50 p.m.
Administrative Director, CanPak Chamber of Commerce
I haven't looked into that detail. I do understand that people may make erratic decisions when they don't know which way to go. It's more something that a lawyer or somebody should advise them on at that time, or some sort of legal counsel should tell them that their case is more on a humanitarian basis or a refugee basis. To me it's very similar. Refugees are seeking protection in one way or another.
To comment on before, with all these people who have come here, I'm very surprised that the committee has not indulged in their work. We should look more to the public and the people who are working in this area and ask them how we will be able to amend this bill in such a way that it can work for Canada, instead of looking at other countries or making up safe countries--
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
I appreciate the comments given, but the reason why we invited these witnesses is to show that we do our due diligence and really work hard in making sure that the bill will be a good one.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Okay. These are Canadians and they can say what they like.
Go for it. We're back on the air, sir. You can say what you wish, or maybe you've finished?
6:50 p.m.
Administrative Director, CanPak Chamber of Commerce
If there are no more questions, I'm finished. I will be sending this information out. If you want to write down by e-mail address, it is sohabe@canpakcoc.com. If you want to send me an e-mail, I can send you out this brief package that I have.
Thank you for your time.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We have one more question of you, sir. Here it comes. It's from the Conservative Party and it's Mrs. Nina Grewal. She's going to ask you some questions.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Thank you, gentlemen, for your time and your presentations. We really appreciate your time. I have about three questions. They're very short ones.
Do you think the delays and multiple recourses in our current system can be a draw for individuals who are not genuine refugees? Could you answer that?
6:50 p.m.
Chairman, CanPak Chamber of Commerce
How do you determine if they're genuine refugees or not?
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
No, I'm asking you a question. If you haven't understood the question, I can put the question back again.
Do you think the delays and the multiple recourses that are taken in our current system draw individuals from outside who are not genuine refugees? Do you think that's a big problem?
6:50 p.m.
Administrative Director, CanPak Chamber of Commerce
Yes, I do think it's a problem in that it does draw people who can possibly abuse the system. But we cannot make that kind of judgment without going through this due process of identifying whether the case is genuine or not.
Take murder, for example. Imagine if we did that. I have a great example here. Put it into this context. If you live in a part of Toronto where crime rates are very low...and since you live in Toronto, where there's an active police force, the police will not do a thorough investigation on a crime committed against you because that area is considered generally safe.
We cannot do this on an assumption basis. It's very important for us to find out who is and who isn't.... A good system should be in place, but that system should not hinder genuine cases.
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Nina Grewal Conservative Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC
Do you think that a failed claimant should be removed quickly once he or she has gone through the various levels of appeals? If not, why not?
6:55 p.m.
Administrative Director, CanPak Chamber of Commerce
They should be removed because they're costing taxpayer dollars. But the way the system is currently set up, I feel kind of scared saying they should be removed, because many people are being removed who should not have been removed in the first place. They're going back to their countries and getting shot. Very traumatic things are happening. What's the point of a refugee system if that's going to happen?
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
6:55 p.m.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Thank you.
To both of you, you've read off a number of recommendations from other organizations that have already made presentations to committee. You've indicated that you think there are some flaws in the bill as presented, but you've presented no alternatives yourselves. You indicated, Sohabe, that you didn't have the time to prepare and you don't have any recommendations to give us in terms of working through the process--
6:55 p.m.
Administrative Director, CanPak Chamber of Commerce
I didn't indicate that--