Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 1st, 2010

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Labour recruiters are captured under the current law in Bill C-35 if they provide advice on immigration matters--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

But they don't, because they only find a job. They give it to their cousin agency, for which I'm sure there's some connection. The cousin agency is the one that gives them for immigration purposes--

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I understand what you're saying, but we can't--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

--and they charge a lot of money.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It would be a different statute to regulate labour recruiters who are not involved in immigration. IRPA is not the right place to locate the regulation of people involved in a different service other than immigration.

We're dealing with immigration. Just like the amendments before Parliament to the Citizenship Act would allow for the regulation of consultants in the citizenship process, it's a separate act--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I understand that, but how do you deal with those who charge $10,000 to find you a job? Then they refer you to a friend of theirs who provides free advice to put in an immigration application in order to come in as a temporary foreign worker, or come in as a visitor, or come in as a certain...whatever. They're still really coming to Canada to get that job--

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

But if the friend is providing advice and dealing with Immigration Canada or not, they would then be covered by IRPA and Bill C-35.

I understand your point. There absolutely are unscrupulous labour recruiters. That's why I'd like to commend the NDP government of Manitoba and other provinces for having taken the lead in tighter regulation of that sector--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That's provincial.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

--and in fact making it illegal for labour recruiters to impose their fee on their clients. That's a measure we have supported through our changes to the live-in caregiver program.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I hear you.

He's going to cut me off, so don't mind me. I'm just going to jump to a few more questions.

I've seen that for those people who have been duped or cheated, because they then face deportation--or they're deported before the crooks can go on trial--the crooks never go on trial; they never get convicted.

Is there something we can do in this bill to stop the deportation and allow them to submit another application if you find they have been cheated, that they got their information in wrong, or the application is done wrongly? Is there something we can do so that they can testify against the crooks and not have their entire dream of being able to stay in Canada or immigrate to Canada completely destroyed?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Well, you'll have to persuade me that that's actually a problem. This is the first time I've ever heard a complaint that our removals process is too fast and efficient.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I am not aware of any case where someone's managed to be removed from the country pending charges in Canada, so I think that might be a non-existent problem you're trying to solve through a statutory amendment, which I think would probably be overkill.

But I'm sure that because it's the CBSA that does the enforcement on IRPA and the CBSA that does the removals, I would hope they're sufficiently sophisticated to not--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You would hope they would not. Okay. If I find you cases, I'll raise this again.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Okay. Please do.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I see where you're going.

In Australia they have a list on their website of all the people who qualify and a list of those who have just been removed. Are we planning to do the same thing?

Also, would there be not a snitch line, but a central line where they can file a complaint? Right now it's really confusing. Do you go to the police? Do you go to CBSA? Do you go to CIC? Do you go to the RCMP? Or do you go to your provincial body?

My gosh, if we can't figure it out, there's no way a poor immigrant could figure this out as to where they complain. Because sometimes it's fraud, sometimes it's whatever....

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That's a good question.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Is there any way that we could have a one-stop shop--one phone number, one website, whatever--to stop the fraud or stop the crooks, whatever website it is?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

On the first question, I understand that CSIC already does list the members who have been disciplined or de-licensed, so there is a blacklist, if you will, that's available. I would imagine that a future regulatory body would continue or enhance that practice.

With respect to the one-stop shopping to report fraud, I am asked that question almost every day, and yes indeed, there is: you can report immigration fraud by calling the Border Watch tip line at 1-888-502-9060. All information is treated as confidential. You can also report Internet fraud or other scams by contacting PhoneBusters, operated by the Canadian anti-fraud call centre. So yes, we have one-stop shopping.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Is that well known in the community?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Maybe not well enough. And you know what? That's a good suggestion. Let's put that on the front page of the CIC website. Done.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Would there also be something about the consultants on the CIC site? I know it's on the CSIC site, but some people may not go to that site. Would you be able to--

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, but part of the problem is that technically we haven't had the power for them to give us that information. I think that is--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You will after Bill C-35.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That is power we get in BillC-35, so unless someone gives me some legal reason why we can't, I think it's makes a lot of sense that we would publish their blacklists, shall I say, on our website as well.