Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Do I have time for one other question, Mr. Chairman? Yes.

I just wanted to follow up on the investor program. I know that it has also gone down, and the processing time has gone down, from the remarks that have been made this morning.

I just wanted to ask, though, when a case has been processed and an investor has gained status to come to Canada, etc., what kind of follow-up is there in terms of the investor program to ensure that the commitments are being made in terms of the investment? Or, if there are problems, then I just wonder if you could give us an idea of what verification or follow-up happens once the applicant is in Canada.

[Rénald Gilbert]

I don't have all the details, but the amount of money that has been invested in Canada is divided using a formula to the provinces that participated. Quebec has its own program, but all the other provinces are getting the money. They are investing it in all kinds of services they are providing to the population. After five years they have to reimburse part of it to the investor, so essentially what the provinces are getting is equivalent to the interest on that money. The follow-up is done with the provinces, not with the individual investor.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Dr. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Member speaks in her native language]

Thank you very much again for talking to us in the middle of the night. I definitely know the challenges because of the time difference.

I have quite a few questions.

In November 2010, Minister Kenney announced that travellers from Taiwan would no longer need visas to travel to Canada. I have two questions related to that.

First, in what way has the waiving of the visa requirement affected your mission to better serve the applicants?

Two, how will this help reduce the immigration application process wait times for family and investor-class applicants?

I have other questions, but I'd like you to handle those two first.

[Sean McLuckie]

To answer your first question, the primary advantage is that the applicants don't have to see us. They can proceed directly to Canada and there's less friction in their movements. Additionally, if it's a family they're not spending $400 Canadian to get the visas.

Certainly we're confident that it will increase the ease and hopefully desire of people to travel to Canada, whether for pleasure, to visit family, to attend short-term schooling--for many reasons. So in that sense it's a removal of friction.

On how this will affect processing times, it really won't. It will reduce the impact on processing times, but even this will be relatively minimal. We were approving more than 99% of temporary resident visa applications. So when a person had an application in process to immigrate, they could still go to Canada to visit loved ones. They could still get a study permit or a work permit. So the visa waiver itself won't really affect the processing times.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

In 2009, the Canadian trade office in Taipei approved 99% of the more than 25,500 visitor visa applications received. In the same year, 51,000 travellers from Taiwan came to Canada on some form of temporary status.

Canada's periodic review of its visa requirements found that there were low numbers of immigration violations by Taiwanese nationals, and few removals from Canada. Can you talk about the process for removing visa requirements and why Taiwan was a good candidate for that?

[Sean McLuckie]

I can talk about part of the process. Basically, what occurred is what we call the technical visit. The visit actually happened before my arrival at the mission, but they looked at a number of factors, as you mentioned--refusal rates, enforcement rates, and refugee claim rates.

They also looked at the issue of document security: what was the integrity of the Taiwanese passport or the Taiwanese passport application process? There were other factors, such as information sharing on passport information, or other enforcement-like matters. A number of factors were considered in total. Then my understanding is that recommendations were made and partner ministries were consulted. But perhaps Rénald can speak more to this.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

In your opening remarks you also stated that one of the challenges you encounter is integrity of documents, especially in the application for work permits. Then you noted that not all of them were actually nationals of Taiwan. You probably get applications from people who were originally from the Philippines.

What are the steps taken by your mission to ensure that documents of applicants are accurate and reliable?

[Sean McLuckie]

There are three general steps we take. First, we have built familiarity with a lot of the documents we see from the Philippines--and we are talking about the Philippines. We're talking primarily about two type of things: education documents, and to a lesser extent work experience documents.

In terms of education documents, we have a database of transcripts of records or diplomas that we've sent to be verified and have been confirmed authentic. So we actually have scanned copies of these that we can use as references.

We also use interviews in a targeted fashion. To a certain extent they're by telephone. If we want to actually confirm that someone has studied as they have claimed, sometimes a quick phone call will suffice. Sometimes it's necessary to have the individual come in person.

The third method--which is frankly the most time-consuming and onerous, not only in terms of our own resources but the resources of Manilla, which very graciously assists us--is to have verifications conducted with the schools. This uses the resources of Manilla, but it also uses up the goodwill of the schools. Depending on the school, it can sometimes be of limited utility. But those are the three general methods.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

My next question is directed to Mr. Gilbert.

You mentioned that some of the resources have now been moved to countries where there is a big backlog of inventory, so comparing Taipei to Beijing. The global management system that is in place right now--how much has it helped you to really solve problems like that, such as moving some area resources to where the needs are greatest?

[Rénald Gilbert]

We're still at the beginning, I must admit. As I described, I think Hong Kong, for instance, got online today. And most of the missions got it since November. We started a bit earlier, but now that is the case.

It allows us...because all the information that is entered in one place is available immediately at the other place. It means that for the case of a file creation for a spouse application, if the file is created here in Ottawa, for instance, immediately all the information is available at the mission--let's say in Taipei.

There is still a gap. We're still working with paper applications, unfortunately, so we still have to send it to Taipei. When Taipei gets it, all of the information will already be in the system. It moves to the next step already of first analysis in the decision-making. So we skip one of the issues.

With regard to resource allocation, in the case of Taipei, for instance, because we removed the visa we had to lay off a number of employees. All those positions were reallocated in the system, many of them to Africa, actually: to Dakar, Cairo, and Nairobi, for instance. So whenever that happens--and it does not happen often--where we actually have positions that are freed up, it allows us to increase our capacity, if there is room, where we have the strongest point of pressure.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Dr. Wong.

Mr. Lamoureux, you have up to five minutes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I want to pursue the visa issue in the sense that when Taipei was still issuing visas, do you have a statistical number you could provide the committee as to the numbers that would have been rejected of those that were actually applying at the time?

[Sean McLuckie]

Off the top of my head, I can say that last year it was fewer than 200. Of those, I don't know statistically how many were actually from Taiwanese, but I would say very few. It was probably about 160 out of 27,000 applications--less than half a per cent.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So when you make reference to determining whether or not a country would lose its visa requirements, would that be the primary role or the primary statistic to look at, the refusal ratings or percentage?

Maybe Mr. Gilbert....

[Rénald Gilbert]

Yes, I could answer that.

It's a combination of a number of indicators. That's a very strong one. Once the refusal rate is below 3% or 4%--don't quote me on that, but it's something in that range--that's one of the factors. We could provide the information from our policy sector.

Another factor would have to do with the number of refugee claims from that...countries. Then there's how many removals we had to do for various reasons, whether it's non-compliance to immigration issues or with regard to criminality, for instance.

So it's a combination of indicators that allow the government to essentially make a decision to remove a visa or, in reverse, to impose a visa as was done for the Czech Republic and Mexico two years ago.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

What about the actual impact when you remove a visa requirement? Is there any sense in terms of the number of people who would be coming to Canada to visit compared to the time in which you had a visa requirement? I would think there would be a significant increase. Is there any sort of statistical analysis done to find out to what degree we have more people coming to visit Canada as a direct result of dropping the visa requirement?

[Rénald Gilbert]

Statistics Canada publishes those statistics on a regular basis on the number of visitors from a particular country. In the case of Taiwan, we were issuing long-term multiple entry visas so the same visitor could come with the same visa a number of times. This data is not accumulated by CIC, but Statistics Canada does collect that information.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Okay.

What would have been the number one reason for turning down a visitor visa in the past in Taipei?

[Sean McLuckie]

Generally speaking, it was fraud. Sometimes you would get surprising situations. We did a quality assurance exercise in the past summer on Taiwanese applicants. Out of basically just over a hundred cases, we had one incidence of confirmed fraud where the person provided fraudulent bank statements. Then we had two other incidences where the documents provided were suspect, but we couldn't confirm categorically with the bank that they were fraudulent.

Generally speaking, it was fraud. In other instances it was adverse prior history—they had been to Canada before and had been naughty. Sometimes the reasons for travel as stated categorically did not make sense. That is very rare.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Maybe Mr. Gilbert might be able to provide comment on this in terms of Asian countries where, from my understanding, 80%-plus of the visiting visas are being rejected because of the fear that the individuals would not return to their country of origin. Obviously that is not a concern in Taiwan. In other Asian countries it appears to be the case.

Are there statistics on that? Are there ways for people to address that issue?

[Rénald Gilbert]

I don't have it with me, but the information you provided is incorrect. We approve 80% of the applications globally. It varies from country to country. In China it is over 80%. In the case of India it was roughly 76% or 77% last year.

It varies from country to country, but the approval rate is much higher than you suggest in most countries. The average globally is 80% approval.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Monsieur St-Cyr, you have the floor. You have a choice; you can proceed with your motion, or you can have five minutes of questions and answers.

I don't often give choices, but in your case I do.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I will split my time with myself, then.

I'm going to ask you one final question, and then we can deal with the motion.

Under the immigrant investor program, the Government of Quebec already validates the source of funds. When the Government of Quebec asks you to process a file that has been approved, do you once again validate the source of funds or do you take the validation for granted? Don't you just do the remaining part of the security check and medical check?

[Sean McLuckie]

It's up to us to make the decision regarding eligibility. That also includes the source of funds. The documentation is already there, with the application. Sometimes we request the notes of the people at the Quebec office so that we can see what they've determined with regard to the source of funds. Generally, we have the documents and are able to make the decisions ourselves.