Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 1st, 2011

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have more time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have about a minute.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'll pass my time to Mr. Uppal.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Thank you.

I'm going to follow along with the same thing. Kenya is a home to many refugee camps, such as Dadaab, which is actually the world's largest refugee camp. How does the number of refugees in Kenya affect the number of immigrant applications received at the mission?

[Michael Boekhoven]

The impact, I would say, is marginal. We receive refugee referrals from the UNHCR for the government-sponsored refugees. On the privately sponsored side, however, we receive a number of applications from sponsorship agreement holders. Basically, they submit applications as they are presented. We manage our output through the targets. Because of the balance between all categories, it doesn't have a direct impact on other immigrant categories.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You still have time--about 30 seconds--so if you don't want it, I'll take it.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

My next question would take too long. That's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'll ask the indulgence of the committee to quickly ask this question of both our witnesses.

You obviously have some very serious difficulties. You've outlined them well, and I think we understand what those difficulties are. We're here to make recommendations to Parliament.

Can you give us...? I can't believe you haven't studied possibilities to improve what your problems are. Do you have recommendations to the committee that would improve very serious problems?

That is for both witnesses.

Mr. Gilbert, perhaps we could start with you.

[Rénald Gilbert]

We don't have exactly the type of research that Mr. St-Cyr was describing. That doesn't mean we're not analyzing the issues in order to try to resolve the question of wait times.

Of course, the wait that is linked to a target is more related to the intake control. The fact that we've initiated intake control with regard to a certain line of business has actually had a significant impact on—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm more interested in what you recommend that Parliament can do.

[Rénald Gilbert]

The main issue of having intake control on areas where we can is by far what would have the most impact on processing time. It's true for skilled workers. It's true for privately sponsored refugees, for instance, which is another area where we're trying to reduce the number of applications...or have a better match between the number of applications with regard to the output that we are allowed to...to proceed.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Boekhoven, do you have anything to add?

[Michael Boekhoven]

I have to say, probably no, I don't have anything to add. I think Mr. Gilbert has outlined one of the main blocks.

I can illustrate that with a point by saying that, for example, the number of privately sponsored refugee applications that we have had here has essentially skyrocketed over the past two years or so. With the help of the refugee branch at Citizenship and Immigration, and with the incredible flexibility of the service agreement holders, we have been able to limit the intake of privately sponsored refugees. Nevertheless, in the past two years the damage to our inventory has been such that we now have an inventory of approximately seven and a half years' worth of privately sponsored refugees in our inventory.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Lamoureux, welcome to the immigration committee. You have up to five minutes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you. I'll try to keep it quick.

You had made reference to the provincial nominee program.

I guess my question would be for the program manager, and perhaps Mr. Gilbert could also provide comment on it.

Under the provincial nominee program, there is a requirement in terms of settlement moneys. Sometimes it's estimated around $10,000, plus $2,000 for each dependant. The question I have is in regard to the settlement moneys. If they have family members--and I'll use Manitoba as the example--living in the province of Manitoba, does it really matter where that settlement money is? For example, whether it's in Hilbre or in the Philippines, is it okay for them to have the settlement money here in Canada, or is there an expectation that they must have that settlement money in the country of origin when they're coming through the provincial nominee program under the economic class?

[Rénald Gilbert]

I should probably reply to that.

The funds that you are describing are what we ask from any applicant who does not have a sponsorship of some kind in order to make sure they will have enough money to support themselves for that year. If they have relatives, if there is no undertaking of any type that would force that individual to help the new migrant, we have to ensure that the new migrant starts with the financial capacity in order to settle. Even if they have family members, there is no undertaking of any shape that is signed with us. We cannot have a guarantee that they'll have support when they're here.

That's basically the rationale.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

What if there is an affidavit of support that is given from the family member in the province?

[Rénald Gilbert]

For the family members, for instance, depending on the category.... For parents, there is an undertaking that for 10 years they will support their parents when they're here. So there is a guarantee that we, or the province, will not incur costs related to the fact that someone came to Canada without the necessary adequate financial support.

With provincial nominees or any categories where they are independent, if I could say, there is no such undertaking.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Very specifically, let's say I am sponsoring, through a provincial nominee program, my brother in Nairobi or the Philippines. If I say, “Look, I have the $10,000 here; it's his money, he can use it, and I'll sign a piece of paper saying that”, is that individual then required to have that money physically located in the country, whether it's Nairobi or the Philippines?

[Rénald Gilbert]

The provincial nominee is essentially an independent movement. Some have relatives. Some provinces have created a program where they favour relatives, but currently in the legislation there is no legal base for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Monsieur Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Boekhoven, when my colleague Mr. Oliphant was talking about this terrible case of the Sudanese family that's been languishing for over 10 years in a refugee camp after escaping the war in Sudan, you made a comment in regard to the processing of refugees that I found quite telling. Your wording was that the numbers are in excess of our needs.

What's worrisome about this is that in the case of refugees, I would think that the determinations would be the needs of the refugees. Are they in harm's way? Are their lives in danger? What is the condition of the camps that they are languishing in? There is a spectrum of conditions in those particular camps.

So there are two parts. Could you please answer, number one, how do you establish your quotas on refugees, and is it politically determined here in Ottawa for you?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're giving him 30 seconds to answer.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Number two, you mentioned that one of your officials has travelled through the refugee camps. Have you established a table? Do you have a report that provides the conditions of those families in those refugee camps, the various refugee camps that he's visited, whether there are refugees from Sudan, or especially in Kenya, not that far away from where you're located; has he visited the Somali refugee camps that are located in Kenya, and do you have a report on the conditions within those camps?