Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 3rd, 2011

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Do you expect more appeals to be coming in? You probably do. Do you have any projections? I suppose it's hard to say.

[Hazelyn Ross]

It's difficult to say, because a lot depends on what happens in the world. I'm expecting that we will have appeals, perhaps, from permanent residents who are in the Middle East and want to come back. If there is a natural disaster somewhere in the world, there are more appeals. Personally I'm expecting that we will get more residency obligation appeals out of the Middle East situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Rubinoff, what proportion of the decisions are published?

[Joel Rubinoff]

All of the decisions of the IAD go to CanLII. They're available in due course on CanLII, which is a website. They're also available through Quicklaw, which is a paid subscription, while CanLII is a free subscription. We have a publication called RefLex; we look at significant cases and put them in that digest, but only a small proportion end up in RefLex.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Grewal, you have up to seven minutes.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Dykstra.

My question is regarding refugee claimants. Could you tell us how a large influx of refugee claimants--say, about 500 or 1,000 additional claimants per year--would affect processing times in a local area like B.C. or Nova Scotia?

[Simon Coakeley]

An influx of refugee claimants wouldn't have an immediate impact on the immigration appeal division, because that would be handled by our refugee protection division. However, once people are granted refugee status, they become permanent residents in Canada and at that point are able to sponsor family members to join them. If those family members are then denied, that would become an issue for the immigration appeal division.

Given that at the moment our average processing time for refugee claims is 22.5 months, in the current scenario you wouldn't see an impact on the appeal division for probably a couple of years. When the Balanced Refugee Reform Act comes into force and the new timelines kick in, the process will be much quicker, obviously, so the potential impact on the immigration appeal division would be seen in a shorter period of time.

I couldn't say that 500 additional refugees would translate into a specific number of appeals at the immigration appeal division, because it very much would depend on how many family sponsorships they wanted to do, how many were accepted or rejected, and if rejected, whether they chose to appeal. I'd be pulling a number out of thin air.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Ms. Ross, do you have anything to say on that?

[Hazelyn Ross]

No, I don't. I think Mr. Coakeley has covered it quite well.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

Now that you've started in on the new refugee reform legislation, I have a couple of questions I want to ask you about. I wanted to ask you a question to follow up on the IAD questions that have come forward.

The Canadian Bar Association is actually appearing before us next. I wanted to read to you one of the points they have in their letter and get your comments, if I could.

It is our understanding that redetermination decisions following successful IAD appeals will now be processed at national headquarters rather than by the visa office that rendered the initial refusal. We commend CIC on this initiative and recommend expansion of this pilot project to include all missions as soon as possible.

I'm wondering if you could enlighten the committee a little bit on what they're referring to.

[Simon Coakeley]

Mr. Rubinoff might want to come in on this in a minute.

It's my understanding that currently a visa application, particularly a sponsorship appeal, can be denied on a particular ground. That can come to the IAD. The IAD reviews it, hears the additional evidence, and overturns the original decision. It goes back to the visa post, and then a second denial is made on a different ground.

Is that...?

[Joel Rubinoff]

That's correct. Let's say that we allow an appeal. Generally it has to go not through us but through, I believe, the local CBSA and CIC back to the visa post. It has to get there. It then is redetermined. They then continue with the processing, taking into account our decision. Then they decide whether to grant the permanent resident visa or deny it on another ground. If they deny it on another ground, there then is a right of appeal, and it comes back to the IAD.

My understanding from the letter from the Bar Association is that instead of, in some cases, sending it back to the visa post, they're now going to process it centrally, as indicated in the letter.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Are you comfortable with that process?

[Joel Rubinoff]

It is for CIC to decide the appropriate process.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

In other words, do you think what they have suggested is, in fact, working?

[Joel Rubinoff]

CIC proceeds and has been proceeding that way for many years. They have decided to change it for whatever reason, and it appears that the Bar Association favours it, so it would appear that the change will decrease processing and will be more efficient. That's all I can take from that letter, but I have no particular knowledge as to the changes being proposed.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

You touched on Bill C-11. I wonder if you could comment on how, from the board's perspective, C-11 will affect processing times for refugee claimants.

[Simon Coakeley]

Bill C-11will have a huge impact on refugee times at the RPD. In fact, we were discussing it yesterday at our chairs' management board.

As I indicated earlier, the current average wait time for a hearing is about 22.5 months. As you know, under Bill C-11 we will have to conduct an initial interview within 15 days of the claim being referred to us. Depending on whether the person is from a designated country of origin or not, the hearing would commence either 60 or 90 days after the interview. We expect that approximately 80% of decisions will be rendered from the bench at the hearing, and that is going to be our working target.

Once the claimant has the written copy of the decision in hand, from the regulations that CIC will be proposing, we understand they'll have 15 days to file and perfect their appeal. It again depends on where the person comes from; if the person is from a designated country of origin, the new refugee appeal division would have to render its decision within 30 days. If it's a case that doesn't come from a designated country of origin, the decision could be in up to 120 days.

As you can see, if you add up all of the numbers, it still comes to a significantly lower number than the current 22.5 months.

For the committee's information, when Brian Goodman, our chair, appeared before you on Bill C-11 back in the spring, there was a discussion about our staffing processes. I'd like to confirm for the committee--

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I was actually going to ask you to update us, because we're obviously moving from a somewhat appointed system to a permanent system.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're running out of time.

[Simon Coakeley]

I'll quickly answer.

For our deputy chair position and for assistant deputy chairs, it was an external competition that was open to all permanent residents of Canada and Canadians anywhere in the world. The competition is closed, and we're in the selection process. The member position and the coordinating member positions are currently open. We have parallel processes within the public service and an external process that's again open to all permanent residents of Canada and Canadians. In a few weeks, we will be launching our interview process, which will again be parallel.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, you have two minutes.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Is one of the guiding principles for IRB officials when hearing cases that they are to approach the cases in an impartial manner?

[Hazelyn Ross]

Yes, of course.