Evidence of meeting #5 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was resources.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claudette Deschênes  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Heidi Smith  Director, Permanent Resident Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Dawn Edlund  Acting Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Rénald Gilbert  Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC

Thank you.

5:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Claudette Deschênes

Some of those applications require you to do site visits. One of the ways to actually demonstrate and write up the case and refuse it so that it can go to the IAD is to have a site visit and be able to demonstrate even further that this is not making sense.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC

Thank you.

I will let my colleague go ahead.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

In the early 1900s my father's mother and father emigrated from Ireland, and then they had to go back to care for a sick relative.

I'm still trying to get this ideal waiting time thing worked out in my mind. I'm thinking of all the reasons that family class immigrants, who are not in a position of desperation, as refugees are, might put off travelling, or what might make them not worry about waiting 12 months, if that's the ideal time. They may want to sell a house or a car. They might save more money, finish a project, or say goodbye to friends. The birth of a baby might put off their ideal travel time; they might have to take care of a sick relative or have a medical procedure. I'm trying to understand the push and pull on this. I think we're sometimes assuming that everybody's waiting with their bags packed, ready to go, and that's not true. I think you might be being too hard on yourself.

I want to ask you about the immigrant investor class, because it says here that in 2008 immigrants invested over $550 million after the number of cases processed annually went from 1,000 to 2,000 in 2007.

If that went up to 10,000, say, it appears to me that the potential is billions of dollars worth of investment. Is that correct?

5:15 p.m.

Director, Permanent Resident Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Heidi Smith

Yes. In round numbers, if you multiply the number of cases out there by the $400,000 they're required to invest, it comes to several billion dollars.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

You say it's fairly open: if these people were accepted to emigrate to Canada, these people who meet other criteria as well, there are potentially billions of dollars of investment.

5:15 p.m.

Director, Permanent Resident Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Heidi Smith

There is that amount, potentially. I think we have to be careful with some of the withdrawal and refusal rates in that category as well. The source of the funds is always a concern with large sums of money and what not, but theoretically, yes, there's--

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON

You mean some of them might be crooks or gangsters, and we don't want them, but other than that, there's big potential.

5:15 p.m.

Director, Permanent Resident Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Dryden.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Dryden Liberal York Centre, ON

I have a quick question, but I don't know whether you're able to answer it.

Let's use Russia as the example again. People have made the application, and they're waiting. Is there anything they can do during that time in anticipation of coming to Canada? Can they prepare themselves? Are there materials? Are there programs? Is anything offered by our consular offices or embassy offices to help those people? Maybe after a month or two it becomes clear that they are going to be accepted down the line, so can they can start to prepare themselves for arrival in Canada? Do we do that?

5:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Claudette Deschênes

There are a number of things available, and we're continuing to work on providing more support. In some countries, there are already programs that the Canadian government is providing through service providers.

One of the key things we're doing presently is at the foreign credentials referral office, which is all about setting up more information for prospective immigrants who have decided they want to come to Canada. So it validates that you really do want to come and that you're going to be able to work and what qualifications of yours need to be recognized so you can work in Canada. Then, once you've been accepted to come to Canada, it's about providing the additional support needed.

Right now we've set up this support in India, China, the Philippines, and we're about to do so in London to cover the gulf states. You can get support in these places to prepare for a job search in Canada and to make sure your credentials are recognized. By the time you get to Canada, you're then set and ready to start finding work. So that is starting to roll out.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Dryden Liberal York Centre, ON

Are you able to meet the demand for that now in those places—not the places you're about to move into, but those places where you already are? Is this an initial process you're ramping up to try to meet the capacity required, or are you at that capacity level already?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Claudette Deschênes

No, it's being run as a pilot project with the ACCC. We're just ramping up. Right now we're focusing on federal skilled workers, but we want to expand it to provincial nominees. We also want to use the Internet so we can do more of that and those tools are available for people to use.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Ken Dryden Liberal York Centre, ON

Thank you.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

I want to come back to investors.

Quebec has a good program, without a doubt. This is true with regard to the other provinces. Be that as it may, what has always concerned me is the case of people who come to invest, but who, ultimately, come for an address rather than anything else.

Are there preventative measures to ensure that these are really immigrant investors?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Permanent Resident Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Heidi Smith

I do not understand your question.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

You do not understand? Let me slowly rephrase my question.

In Quebec, there is a framework. A certain amount of money is provided, and there is a program that is tied to that. However, we have in the past heard rumours that people who supposedly were immigrating as investors really wanted to have an address in order to come and settle here. This is a roundabout way of immigrating.

Have you put in place preventative measures to ensure that these people are really coming here to invest, in other words that they are not simply coming to settle here?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Permanent Resident Policy and Programs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Heidi Smith

The investment is made before the visa is issued, therefore prior to the arrival of the individual in Canada.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC

So someone verifies that the money has already been invested, and so forth.

I understood that, for economic reasons, there are major regional centres, but economically-speaking, things have in the meantime changed somewhat. Do you want to open other centres?

I sometimes find that in this connection, Africa is a poor relative. Do you intend to open other offices? I am thinking in particular of the Maghreb region, and the reality which is increasingly important there with regard to francophone immigration. I would like to know whether other offices might be opened, for the reason mentioned earlier by my friend Mr. St-Cyr concerning Nairobi and Madagascar. This was done back in the day in Chandigarh, which is in another region.

Does Immigration Canada want to open other offices, particularly in North Africa?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Claudette Deschênes

Today, we are unable to open other offices, but we are currently developing how we will use our system. Using the GCMS and biometrics, we might perhaps opt for smaller offices but in more locations, rather than larger offices, keeping those for Canada.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you.

Monsieur St-Cyr.

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

What you're proposing is extremely interesting. In fact that is to some extent what I was trying to say previously when I was interrupted. My introduction was very long. Sovereignists are sometimes given to very long preambles.

With regard to immigrant investors in Quebec, there are often comments, if not to say frustrations, concerning the difficulty of tying the selection done in Quebec to the verification which is done in Ottawa. This concerns, among other things, the issue of the source of the funding and ensuring that there be no money laundering or money from other illicit activities. Applicants often feel they are doing the same thing twice. We are asking them to do the same thing twice, but not necessarily in the same way, which is extremely frustrating. At the same time, from a systemic perspective, it seems there is a costly duplication for taxpayers.

Have you recently put in place mechanisms to reduce this kind of frustration and duplication?

5:20 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Claudette Deschênes

I believe that this is something we are aware of and that we are working on. Obviously, the issue of the source of funds is extremely important and this is a federal responsibility. So, we are doing these kinds of investigations. I believe that Quebec also wants to know where the funds are coming from. So we continue to negotiate with them and if they accept our decision, it will be much quicker.

The issue is, at some point, to have the same forms and to ensure that people can get them quickly. With regard to investors, we are looking at making decisions to ensure there is no duplication. However, we want to do the work that we are responsible for doing as the federal government.

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

So, when these people tell us that, initially, Ottawa is the one complaining that Quebec is not conducting sufficient checks about the source of the funds, if I understand correctly, this is not true. You are not asking the Government of Quebec to verify the source of the funds. You are taking the selection certificate. You have that responsibility.