Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 30th, 2010

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much.

I have a question related to people who work with the government, who sometimes lack the resources to do whatever they need to do. What do you need more of in order to improve the processing?

[Claudette Deschênes]

You're going to say I'm a broken record, but I need global case management, I need an e-application system, and then I need a system that will permit me to have my resources on risk identification, quality assurance, and fraud investigations. That's what I really need to be able to do the work within the levels of exercise as efficiently and effectively as possible.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Why do you not have that?

[Claudette Deschênes]

There were a few hiccups with global case management, but it's about to be landed. Once that is landed, the other things will happen.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

We can discuss this issue all we want, but if the resources are not made available to you to improve your productivity, to improve the processing time, then really it's a discussion where we're analyzing the problem but not really addressing the solution. So we're magnifying the problem by sitting here and talking about it, but we need to find ways to fix it. That's what I think we're here to do.

[Claudette Deschênes]

Speaking to that point, of course the other thing is that we need to control intake. When we have an intake we can't control and yet we know that we have a control on the number of people who can come every year, then our resources start moving to managing an inventory as opposed to processing cases. For us, the ministerial instructions were a great first step, but we need to keep going.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

I know that a lot of people probably listen to our interventions here or read about them, but if you had your ideal situation, could you describe it? What kinds of tools would you have that you presently don't have?

[Claudette Deschênes]

We've been working very hard to integrate our operational network. Global case management will give us a first capacity to do that, which will permit us then to put resources in the right place according to risk level. The lower the risk, the less you need to be in situ to do that workload, which would then permit us to get economies of scale.

So that's the first thing we need to do. We need to get out of paper, so electronic applications that would permit us to forget about inputting data.... All of that would be done by the client.

Biometrics will give us an intake system with a better way of identifying who is applying to us,.

We need more performance management globally, because right now our caseload overseas is in 60-some individual missions. This is also being built into global case management.

That's what I see. And then you do just-in-time processing.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

What concerns me is that this issue is more problematic and deeper than we think. The reason I say this and the reason I asked you to describe for me your ideal situation is that when you described to me your ideal situation, I saw an enormous gap between your actual reality and what your projected or ideal reality would be.

The challenges we face as a committee in making recommendations to the minister are quite significant, because there is a major gap here. You're there doing the job you're supposed to do, but from what I gather, without a lot of the tools that you need.

This is going to require the right type of investment, if we as parliamentarians expect the numbers to go down. I often hear that it's the system and that we could do it without resources. The type of things you're talking about are going to cost money and are going to require investment. If we're serious about building an immigration system that works and works well and we collectively as parliamentarians have expectations from it, then you have to make investments. If you don't make investments, these numbers aren't going to come down because of some kind of divine intervention; that's not going to happen.

So I hope we're all paying attention, in that there is a major gap between what the people who work in the department say they need and what they actually have.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I am paying attention, and you're out of time.

Madame Thi Lac.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Good afternoon, ladies.

You have told us about the major advantages and impacts on the waiting times of the new system that will be implemented.

First, you said that you had reduced waiting times at Abidjan, Accra, Damascus and Tel-Aviv. Are the resources that you have put in place temporary or permanent?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Everything is not tied just to resources. I would be lying if I said that we always have the right person in each office. It is a combination of things. But sometimes it is resources. Sometimes, it is about helping the mission become better organized in doing its job. Sometimes, it is about improving infrastructure. So, there are all these things at the same time. I would say that some of these missions have benefited from additional resources, but many others did not.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We know that medical exams are valid for only one year. When we see that, in Accra, there is still a 21-month waiting period, this forces people to undergo another medical exam. This can have an impact on the waiting period. Is it not a disadvantage for people when we see that the waiting period is 21 months and that the department continues to say that medical exams are only valid for one year? With that inflexible standard, we are forcing people to undergo another medical exam and to commence a complex process in such countries.

[Claudette Deschênes]

Perhaps we should consider whether a medical exam at the start of the process is a good way to proceed in some situations. The validity of the medical exam is a way to protect the security of Canadians. It is tied to the fact that tuberculosis is endemic in a number of countries. I don't know whether extending the period of validity of the medical exam is a good solution. However, perhaps we could consider this.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I see that, in Accra, the application processing time went from 31 months to 21 months. Despite the fact that there has been a 10-month decrease, it is still quite high since the other times also went down, except for Abidjan that more than increased its performance. In Tel Aviv, it was already under a year, Manilla was 12 months and Damascus was 14. Why did you make it a priority to reduce the processing times, which were, in my opinion, more acceptable at 11 and 12 months, rather than giving priority to places such as Accra where the processing time was 31 months? Despite everything, we now see that it takes nearly two years.

[Claudette Deschênes]

In this case, the problem is not really a matter of resources, it's because of the kind of cases where a DNA test is essential to ensure a real relationship. Sometimes, there are mail problems. We try to communicate with the individual, but they do not receive the letter and we have to make several attempts. Sometimes, it's because the people do not come to the interview. These cases are more difficult to resolve with the addition of more resources.

We are currently looking at whether we could ask the Canadian sponsor to do more so as to cut the waiting time. At the same time, we want to avoid a solution that will make it even more difficult for the sponsor because perhaps they will end up with the same problem. We are examining this further. We are currently preparing to remind all missions what to do to ensure that the initial process is as short as possible. We realize that, in certain missions, the process is short because, in the beginning, an officer assesses the case immediately and is immediately able to make a decision based on needs.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Dr. Wong is next.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming to this committee.

My questions are focusing on immigration investor cases.

As you have stated, in 2008 alone immigrants invested over $550 million in Canada, and probably between 2004 and 2008 the processing times for 80% of federal and Quebec investors went down. I'm interested in Beijing, which went down from between four and seven months to three months. But then, you're concerned about Hong Kong. When I look at the number for Hong Kong, it jumped between 2004 and 2008. In 2004 we had about 3,500 only, but then as we went to 2008 the number jumped to almost 12,000.

So, in Hong Kong do they process not just investor immigration files from Hong Kong itself but also from some other provinces of China? Am I right to assume that?

[Heidi Smith]

Yes, Hong Kong treats cases from other parts of China as well. I don't have the figures.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

I think it's southern China—Guangdong and some of the others.

[Heidi Smith]

Yes.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

The reality of the economic situation in China is that those are the places where people really grow in wealth, and people are now ready to come as investors. Is this one of the reasons that all of a sudden we have so many more applications?

[Heidi Smith]

I think there are a few different reasons for that increase in applications. Certainly the wealth of some of these populations has increased significantly in the last few years. We've seen similar sorts of trends, though, in other business immigration cases for other countries. For example, the EB-5 visa in the U.S. has tripled in the last year or two. We're seeing similar increases around the world. There are people with that kind of net worth who are on the move, certainly. It's hard to pin to one specific cause the reason for seeing such a dramatic increase.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

You mentioned one of the countries that seem to have similar challenges. If you look at the processing times for investor-class immigrants, how does ours compare with similar programs of other countries? You mentioned one country.

[Heidi Smith]

I'm afraid I don't have those numbers in front of me right now, so I couldn't really comment in any detail.