Evidence of meeting #7 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was applications.
A recording is available from Parliament.
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
They're hired to do a workload and process citizenship and permanent residency cards. Citizenship cards and permanent residency cards still exist and they still come in, whether they're done by a full-time person or a term person.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Well, I know, but you've actually said that temporary people are not nearly as good or as qualified as the full-time people and that we shouldn't actually use the temporary system because it in fact delays the process. They all have to be trained, and at the same time they aren't able to do more than, as you've just said, nibble at the backlogs.
This is the difficulty. You have ministry officials who are paying attention to what you are saying today. If the temporary program doesn't work and you don't like it, just say you don't and I'm sure the ministry, even though they would like to try to get these reductions down and even though they would like to try to use a little bit of extra end-year money that they find to try to reduce the backlog...you have come here and said it's worthless or it shouldn't happen.
I appreciate the fact that Mr. Eyking is here, but who is he supposed to defend, as the MP? Is he supposed to defend the fact that temporary individuals are actually given an opportunity to earn additional income, to earn the opportunity to prove themselves in the ministry, or to earn the opportunity to potentially be hired full-time? Or should we just do away with the program?
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
I'll respond to that. And please don't misquote me again, because I never said our term employees were not qualified employees. What I said is that when our terms are let go and you have to rehire off the street, you're back into a training mode. I respect our term employees, our casual employees, and our part-time employees to the fullest for the work they do. But what's happening is that once they're trained and they're told their term is over, all of a sudden there is a backlog and we have to rehire people. So we have never been against hiring term employees.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Jeannette, do these people know or not know that they're going to be hired on a temporary basis?
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
Yes, they do.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Does the ministry ever mislead anyone to believe that those temporary positions will become full-time at the end of the temporary program?
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
In some cases I think there is some of that assumption, that they will be kept because of the workload that's there and the number of applications that come in on a daily basis. So there is an assumption that even though they might have signed a letter that--
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Jeannette, who makes the assumption that all of those temporary people, even though they signed a temporary contract, are going to be getting full-time work?
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
You just have to look at the workload. Let's go back to the workload, because this is what we're here for. The work is coming in--3,500 applications a day--and there are so many bodies--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Excuse me, Ms. McKay. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
We have a point of order from Mr. Karygiannis.
Liberal
Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Mr. Chair, I do thank you for the point of order. As you have called Ms. McKay by her last name, I'd like Mr. Dykstra to show the same respect for the witness and address her by her last name.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Do you have a problem if I call you by your first name? Mr. Karygiannis wants me to call you by your last name. I feel it's a little more comfortable that--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Let's move on here.
I'm sorry I interrupted you. I don't know whether you remember where I interrupted you. Proceed.
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
I'll go back to the point we're trying to make here, which is the workload. The workload is there, it keeps coming in, and we want enough staff to meet the needs of that workload.
I'll make it very clear. We are not against hiring term people. It doesn't matter if they're on contract. When they're hired and it says they're ending at the end of March or at the end of June, there is an assumption there, when the workload keeps coming in, the applications keep coming in, that there will be an extension.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
I totally agree with you. You and I are totally on the same page. There would be nothing better than to get rid of the entire backlog. I don't question that for one minute.
Part of what we're trying to do here is work through how we address the wait times and how we get the backlogs down. One of the ways the ministry has determined this is not in the manner that you may like, in terms of spending a lot more money and hiring a lot of additional people on a full-time basis, but in a way that at least shows we're trying to work at it. If it's an unacceptable manner of doing it, I respect the fact that you may agree with that, but if there is not a want to have a temporary program that we can actually implement from time to time across the country, I suppose you're well within your right to make that.... But I hope you'll understand that as much as we possibly can and wherever we can, within the fiscal constraints that we face as a government--and certainly the provinces face the same issue--we have to take those things into account.
If we are going to continue with programs like this--and the ministry is going to be up next, so we'll get a chance to ask them--I hope we have your full support to continue this program when and wherever possible we can implement it. We did it in 2006 in Sydney. We did it in 2009. Perhaps in the next couple of years we may be able to do it again. Do we have your support for that program?
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
Well, you know what--
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
It's easy for the opposition to say do it today and they'd give you a lot more, because they're not trying to run the government right now. They're just doing what's politically comfortable for them to do.
I'm asking whether you want to run the program.
Conservative
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Mr. Chairman, a committee's role, whether you're in opposition or government, is to ensure the sound management of public funds. When we have opposite us employees who are unable to do their job because your government has imposed cuts, it is our job to say what to do. Don't come and tell us we don't run the government. We manage public funds by helping you too.
Conservative
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Thank you. I realized almost right away that it wasn't.
If you don't mind, I would just like to hear from you guys. Do the three of you recommend that if we get the opportunity to run the temporary program again, we should?
National President, Canada Employment and Immigration Union
I'm here to ensure that the same thing doesn't happen year after year, as this government has been doing. It is allowing backlogs and not allowing the claims of immigrants to enter in a timely manner. That's what we're here for. It is to fight for the new immigrants who are coming into this country. The only way to do that is to have enough staff to meet the workload, because that workload is there every day. That is not happening, and that's what we're here for.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Agreed. That's why I wanted to ask if you support the temporary program. That's all I wanted to get from you. The three of you were brought in here. You have the opportunity. Do you or do you not support the program?
Local President, Citizenship and Immigration (Sydney), Canada Employment and Immigration Union
Sir, I support the program, but I would like to move on, if I could, and address your concern.
Yes, we do, because we want to do a good job for the Canadian citizenry. However, sir, temporary people fill the same chairs with different faces year after year after year. Those same chairs are filled with temporary people every year. Does that not bring to you a sense that we should look at something more permanent? Because when the people are laid off, sir--
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Sir, it's my understanding that we've run the program--