Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 24th, 2011

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Actually, Mr. Minister, I'm sorry, I have many questions I want to get to.

You had a backdrop behind you at first that said, “Action Plan for Faster Family Reunification”. The LIC program is one where we know from the beginning that 99% of the caregivers who come here are going to sponsor their spouses and children. We know that because that's the design of the program.

Under your program, it takes an average of seven years for a caregiver to bring over their spouse and children. That's because they have to work for their 24 months, and often it takes longer; then can they sponsor their children and their spouse. What we see, Mr. Minister, are marital breakdowns and traumatized children, because we have a designed program where usually—let's face it—wives are separated from their husbands and children for years.

I'm just going to ask you, why not let the spouse and children come with the caregiver at the beginning, the way it happens for senior executive-level skilled workers who are coming here under the skilled worker program, who often are allowed to bring their spouses and children? We know they're going to come. The only question is whether you want that family unit to come intact or whether we want to risk the inevitable marital breakdown and trauma that occurs by having such a long gap between their unification. Would you consider that?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I would say that first of all Canada is the only country I know that provides a pathway to permanent residency for caregivers. Second, some people have suggested that we do away with the live-in requirement in the program. The problem is this. There's no shortage of Canadians prepared to work as caregivers living outside the home. People apply for that job; they do that work. But when employers ask for live-in caregivers, Canadians and residents don't apply.

Here's another interesting thing. People who have worked in Canada as caregivers on a work permit as temporary foreign workers quite typically, as soon as they can, apply for an open work permit and leave the live-in caregiver field. So here's the problem. If we fundamentally change the character of the program to essentially grant people conditional or immediate permanent residency and family sponsorship, that undermines the labour market point of the program, which is to give Canadian families access to live-in caregivers.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

But there is a solution, Mr. Minister. The reason the economics of the program work, from my understanding, is that a family will pay that person a lower wage because they're providing board. So when you offer someone room and board in your home, you pay a smaller salary because you're taking into account the board you're giving.

If you allow a caregiver to live outside the home, but you keep the wage the same, then if those people were allowed to bring their spouses, and maybe children, who could have temporary work permits and work, they could at least live together and they could keep their family intact. But they would obviously receive the same amount of money because if you're charging the family an uneconomic amount, they won't have the caregiver.

The reason Canadians don't work—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're running out of time, sir.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

—in those homes is that nobody will work for the amount of wages that are paid just as wages, without the board being factored in. But I think there are caregivers who would rather live outside the home with their husband and children, all working together, than be separated for five or six or seven years, even if that means some economic sacrifices.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're going to have to move on.

Mr. Coderre, you have five minutes.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, the backlog is not just a matter of money; it is a matter of process.

I recall that at the time we centralized the data. There was an issue relating to the regional offices, and so on. First, I would like to be more specific.

You know that people who want to get a visa or who make an application to immigrate to Canada from Lebanon have to travel to Damascus. Given the political situation in Syria, are you prepared to transfer the process from Damascus to Beirut, for example? Is this the kind of thing you would be prepared to do?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, Mr. Chair, we are obviously concerned about the situation in Syria.

Mr. Coderre is right to raise this question because the Citizenship and Immigration service centre in the Middle East is in Damascus.

To date, we have been able to continue offering our services, in spite of interruptions. Our local staff are experiencing some concern. We are monitoring the situation.

If some services have to be transferred to another office, we would be prepared to do that.

Claudette, do you have something to add?

[Claudette Deschênes]

Yes.

I would simply add that now, with the automated system, it is not necessary for it to be transferred to another office abroad. Some parts of the work could be done in Canada.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Ms. Deschênes, there is a problem.

Obviously, the Lebanese community is very important in Canada. You know that. It is an historical and traditional fact. Many in the community come from the Montreal region, for example.

I am not talking about a specific case. At present, people are coming to see me and telling me they have to travel to Damascus for examinations or tests. If that is not the case, I want to know.

However, there is a significant geopolitical situation in Syria at present, and like every good minister of immigration, you have to do something concrete.

Given that it is not getting better and there are growing problems in Syria at present—some of our local employees cannot even move about because their lives are in danger—what is your turnaround time?

[Claudette Deschênes]

We are currently examining all the options. One of them is to transfer some parts of the work to other missions or to Canada, which we have already done. We are currently studying what else could be done.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Does Beirut have a role to play?

[Claudette Deschênes]

The Beirut office has a role to play, but it is not the only solution.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

That's right, but you are considering it and you are keeping a close eye on things.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We transferred a lot of services from Beirut to Damascus because of the political uncertainty in Beirut 15 years ago.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I understand, but today there is more stability in Beirut. In fact, our role is to make sure that people who want to apply to immigrate to Canada are able to do so without disturbance.

A lot has been said about backlogs. The reality is the security process. At present, what is the impact of security clearance problems on backlogs? Essentially, that is one of the problems. You cannot go and see the RCMP and tell them to go faster because people are waiting too long because of these security checks. It is not just because of what happened under the previous government. On the contrary, it is because you are having to deal with problems that come from the outside. Do you have a clear percentage for the portion of the backlogs that relates to the security process?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Coderre, between 1993 and 2005, the government accepted, on average, 222,000 permanent residents, but during some of those years it received over 400,000 applications. During that time, one of the reasons why the number of permanent residents admitted declined may have been related to security clearance problems, I don't know. All I know is that we accept over a quarter million applications a year at present, and with the security agencies, we have the ability to check applications from a national security perspective.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

The problem you—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Time's up.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Time's up?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Your time's up.

The government has the final questions.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I've listened with interest to this entire meeting. I know I'm going to break the mould here, because there were no introductory comments on the estimates and there hasn't been one question on the estimates. I don't want to throw this out of kilter, but I was going to ask a couple of questions—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We'll vote on estimates in a very short time.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I hope it's okay if I ask a couple of questions on the estimates, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Please do.