Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 27th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I call the meeting to order.

This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration, meeting number 29, on Tuesday, March 27, 2012. This meeting is televised, ladies and gentlemen, so be on your best behaviour.

The meeting is divided into two. We will suspend at 4:30 or a few minutes before 4:30. The first hour is pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the main estimates 2012–13, votes 1, 5, and 10 under the Citizenship and Immigration Act, which were referred to the committee on Tuesday, February 28, 2012. The second hour is pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the study “Standing on Guard for Thee: Ensuring that Canada's Immigration System is Secure”.

Mr. Davies has put me on notice that he wishes to go in camera sometime. When would you like to do that?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chairman, I suggest we go in camera at the end of the meeting, for maybe five minutes, to discuss some committee business.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't see any negative reactions, so I have no problem with that, Mr. Davies.

We have our guests with us today—the Honourable Jason Kenney, Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism.

Good afternoon to you, sir. You have your usual posse. You can introduce them. I haven't seen Mr. Linklater in a long time. I am pleased to see you, sir.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship]

He's been travelling.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to be here with Deputy Minister Yeates, Assistant Deputy Minister Deschênes, and Assistant Deputy Minister Linklater. Madame Deschênes does operations and Mr. Linklater does policy. Our chief financial officer, Amipal Manchanda, who is fairly new in that position, is doing a great job.

I am pleased to be here today to present the main estimates for my department for fiscal year 2012-2013. I appreciate this opportunity to talk about our priorities for this upcoming fiscal year.

I want to thank the committee for your contributions to some of the things we've been able to accomplish over the past year. In particular, I want to take this opportunity to thank and commend members, once again, for your excellent report on the issue of immigration backlogs.

As you know, Chairman, a major focus for my department in the past year has been on reducing immigration backlogs. We want to modernize our system and make it more responsive to the needs of our economy. That's why we are asking for an additional $25 million to modernize the immigration system.

Another major focus this past year has been on improving the integrity of our immigration and refugee systems, which is why a large portion of our increase in main estimates funding—that is to say, $51.8 million—will go toward our biometrics screening project for temporary residents, which you know is before the House for statutory authorization in the form of Bill C-31.

We always need to be vigilant to ensure that the immigration system continues to function in our country's interest. As I stated at my last appearance, biometrics is a great example of ensuring our immigration system is as modern and up to date as possible. We also need to modernize our system in other ways, to ensure that immigration can respond to our labour market needs. We need to make sure that the skilled immigrants we choose are the ones most likely to succeed in our economy as soon as they arrive. All of this means that we need a fast immigration system—one that enables us to quickly select those who have the skills we need when in fact they are needed.

We are always looking to make improvements to the system so that it serves Canada better. Let me quickly review some of the progress we have made to date.

First of all, we have made progress with our provincial colleagues with respect to the Pan-Canadian Framework for the Assessment and Recognition of Foreign Qualifications. We now have clear processes in place to assess credentials in eight regulated occupations, and by the end of this year, we plan to add six additional regulated occupations to that list.

We have greatly expanded the Provincial Nominee Programs, which have begun to better address labour shortages in regions across the country.

For example, through the Canadian experience class we've now granted more than 10,000 temporary foreign workers and foreign students permanent residency here in Canada. These are people who are already pre-integrated and set to succeed with work experience and/or degrees that will be recognized by Canadian employers.

While we have made much progress, the persistent problem of backlogs runs contrary to our country's interests. They aren't fair to applicants who wait in line for years before they can come to Canada, often putting their lives on hold, and they certainly don't work in the best interests of our economy.

Let me focus on one particular stream that was the subject of much of your recent study, and that is the parents and grandparents category. They can currently expect to wait up to seven years before being reunited with their families in Canada. At the end of September last year we had 168,000 people in the parents and grandparents category awaiting the processing of their applications. This means that wait times can only be shortened if we reduce the backlog.

As you know, in December we introduced phase one of our action plan for faster family reunification. It includes a temporary pause of 24 months on new applications; a significant increase in admissions through this program—a 60% increase to 25,000 admissions per year; and a period of consultation as we decide how best to retool the program so it's sustainable in the future. Unless the intake of parents and grandparents is managed before we lift the pause on applications, the backlog will have the potential to quickly balloon to an unmanageable size. So each year Canada will need to manage intake to ensure that inventories are consistent with prompt processing.

What does it mean if we decide as a country to admit, let's say, 15,000 parents and grandparents a year? We shouldn't be taking in more applications than that. In fact, we should be taking in fewer applications than that until the backlog is down to a manageable inventory.

As you know, we've been applying this tool of limiting new applications through the application of ministerial instructions quite successfully to the federal skilled worker program since 2009. As a result, the fast track in that program means that applicants are often being accepted in less than 12 months rather than seven or eight years, and we've managed to reduce that backlog very considerably.

As I indicated at my last appearance, we are currently examining a number of options to further reduce the backlog and which represents 400,000 applications in total. For example, we have launched a pilot project that will allow provinces to “mine the backlog”. In other words, it would allow provinces to review the backlog and nominate those applicants they think their economies need right now.

But we need to do more.

We want to move away from the current slow-moving passive system, where people from overseas simply put their applications in our system and arrive in Canada without jobs, often taking several years before they find success, even if they were so lucky. We need to have a nimble and proactive immigration system where Canadian employers are actively recruiting people in the international labour market from abroad—people who they are confident can come and work at their skill level upon arrival. Right now our slow-moving, rigid, and passive system is ridden with backlogs, and we need to move to one that's fast and nimble. We are on a path to transformational change, but much more work remains to be done.

Mr. Chair, I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I've detailed some of the ways we are working to make immigration more responsive to our economy, and ensure that it serves the interests of all Canadians.

In closing, I would say that it is very nice to see Ms. Turmel, our former Interim Leader of the Official Opposition, at this committee. It's very nice to see the member here.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

That was well done, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Opitz.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, at the end of your comments you referred to transformational change. I know we're introducing a bill in Parliament that speaks to some of those issues. Can you describe some of those transformational changes, and what the dream is of this transformational change? What impacts will it have for this country as a whole, its reputation abroad, and its economic performance as a result?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Well, first, I think we need to underscore how our open and generous immigration programs have failed newcomers to too great an extent in the recent past. All of the economic data indicates that economic outcomes for immigrants have generally been on the decline in the past three decades. There are some exceptions to this that are the result of policy changes.

For example, federal skilled workers arriving under the points grid, which started in 2002, have seen better results, particularly those with pre-arranged jobs. Provincial nominees, who are coming in large numbers now, are doing significantly better on average in their first few years than skilled workers. We think that Canadian experience class immigrants, since we introduced that program in 2008, are doing quite well.

So there are some positive signs, but generally there is a consensus that unemployment rates are much higher for immigrants than for the overall population. It's about twice as high. Unemployment for immigrants with university degrees is nearly three times higher than among degree holders in the general population. We all know why. It's because many of the highly educated, foreign-trained professionals who we invite to Canada end up stuck in survival jobs and facing underemployment.

Just the other day in Vancouver I met a woman, a radiologist, who immigrated from Iran three years ago. She has been working multiple survival jobs. She is at the end of her tether. She said that, as much as she can't stand her country of origin, she's going to go back there now to find work so that she can feed her family here in Canada. That is a shame. We simply cannot continue, practically or morally, to invite people here to face unemployment or underemployment.

The vision is to move from a system that is rigid, passive, and slow-moving, which often underuses the human capital of the highly educated immigrants we receive, to a system that is fast, flexible, and proactive. By that, I mean increasingly empowering employers to look at the global labour market in order to identify those people who have the skills that are immediately relevant to our labour market, so that in principle they can get off the plane and go into—in the best-case scenario—a pre-arranged job, where they know the employer will recognize their skills. That's where we want to go.

We want to essentially apply some of the best features of the provincial nominee program, which is at its best an employer-driven labour market program, and also the best features of the skilled worker program. For example, we know that people who arrived in the skilled worker program with pre-arranged jobs are making on average $79,000 in income after three years, which is much higher than the average in the Canadian population.

The system we want to move towards, instead of being characterized by a seven- or eight-year wait time, will have applicants entering the country in months rather than years. It will have a much larger portion of immigrants coming with pre-arranged jobs. It will be assessing the relevance of their education and experience to the Canadian labour market, rather than the kind of arbitrary and rigid assessment that has been done in the past. So, do they have Canadian experience? We know that younger workers do better. People aspiring to work in the regulated professions, with higher levels of language proficiency, do much better. It's fair to say that not every university degree overseas is of equal relevance to the Canadian labour market, so we'll do more a qualitative assessment of their education.

I've been giving a number of speeches on this. I could easily take an hour answering your question, Mr. Optiz. But the overview is to move from this passive system to one that is much more proactive and much faster, taking into account the research and the data. We have recently done major benchmark studies on the federal skilled worker program and the provincial nominee program, and taken into account the experience of comparable countries, such as Australia and New Zealand.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You mentioned the Canadian experience class, and I know that's a great program. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? I know that people who are here already not only have Canadian qualifications and credentials, but also have improved their language proficiency for integration. Can you elaborate on the overall success of the program and how it's actually impacted different parts of Canada?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

For me, it's the model immigration program, and I hope that in the future it will expand to be our core economic immigration program. It invites foreign students who have completed a two-year degree, or a diploma and one year of work in Canada, which is facilitated by our granting those students open work permits, or temporary foreign workers at the middle to high level of occupational categories who have worked in Canada for two years, to apply for and obtain permanent residency from within Canada on a faster basis.

In the past we used to tell such people at the end of their authorized period in Canada—at the end of their studies or work permit—to please leave Canada. If they wanted to immigrate, even if they had a job lined up, we told them to get in the back of the seven-year-long skilled worker queue, which was absolutely ridiculous, because these people are pre-integrated. They have perfected or improved their English or French language capability. In the case of students, they have degrees and diplomas that are recognized by Canadian employers, and all of them have Canadian work experience. Most of them have pre-arranged jobs.

By every measure, these are the immigrants most likely to succeed in our labour market. We're pleased that so far 10,000 permanent residents have been admitted through that program, but we could do much better. It's been under-subscribed, and we are looking at modifications to the Canadian experience class. For example, one of the changes we're considering is moving the threshold for a permanent residency application for higher-skilled temporary foreign workers from two years to one year. That's one of the changes we're looking at.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Davies, go ahead.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today.

You're here today for the first hour on the main estimates. What is the total budget of your department, Minister, approximately?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It's $1.54 billion.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

We have you here for one hour to talk about the estimates. Would you agree with me that it would be helpful and transparent for the Canadian public if you came back to this committee on some further occasions, considering that we're talking about $1.54 billion of taxpayers’ money?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Absolutely. I would be happy to come back as often as you would like.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, I want to talk about spending in your department, because that's really what we're here to talk about today.

Recently, Canadians have seen a very large advertising program by your department on immigration fraud. There's been extensive television advertising, including in prime time, ads on aircraft, and on the Internet. How much money has your department spent on that advertising program?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Perhaps you're referring to immigration consultants. That would be in the range of a few million dollars. I'll try to get the precise figure.

Amipal, do you have the precise figure?

[Amipal Manchanda, Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Two advertising campaigns were carried out. One was on services to newcomers and the other was on anti-fraud. The combined total for the two was approximately $4 million.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

We all know, as you've so eloquently canvassed, that we have a backlog of over one million applications. Wait times can be described as appalling. I think it's important to note that both backlogs and wait times have increased under your watch. Family sponsorships take years, sometimes more than a decade. Inland spousal applications are not even opened for one year. A woman gave birth to a baby in a hotel in Vancouver recently because CIC could not even write a simple letter confirming that her application had been received.

Your department has said that these cases slipped between the cracks. We say, from the official opposition side, that these cases are much more pervasive than that. Yet we see in the estimates that you're proposing a $27 million cut to internal services. How can Canadians have faith, Minister, that more people will not slip through the cracks if you're cutting $27 million to internal services?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

First of all, over the past five years since our government came to office, there's been a significant expansion in the number of public servants, full-time-equivalent public servants, in our ministry. There's also been a substantial expansion of the operational budget of the ministry. For example, accompanying the passage of Bill C-50 in 2008, and the introduction of the action plan for faster immigration, there was $109 million of additional resources for processing.

In terms of overall backlogs, it's true that the backlog has gone up. As you know, Mr. Davies, I underscore that it's a serious problem, and I admit quite openly to some responsibility for that on the part of our government. It's also true that we inherited an overall backlog of 840,000. But had we not taken the actions that frankly all the opposition parties have opposed, such as the amendments to allow for ministerial instructions, the backlog would not now be a million; it would be well over one and a half million.

The good news is that through ministerial instructions on the skilled worker program, the pause in applications for parents and grandparents, and investor immigrants, etc., we are now finally seeing the huge and growing backlogs coming down.

Perhaps Madame Deschênes would like to comment on operational challenges in terms of—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Actually, I would rather not, Minister. I'd rather keep on you, if I could, because it's a luxury having you here.

My question was about a $27 million cut to internal services. I'll move now to the Immigration and Refugee Board—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I think the minister would be prepared to answer that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

He did have a chance to answer, Mr. Chair. I'm going to move on because my time is limited.

The Immigration and Refugee Board is a board where caseloads are very heavy. Wait times for decisions are lengthy. The New Democrats support a system of decision-making that is efficient, timely, and fair, yet we see that you intend to cut $7 million, or 5%, of the budget of the Immigration and Refugee Board. In your view, Minister, how will cuts to the IRB help decision-making become faster and fairer?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That's not actually going to reduce IRB's capacity to render decisions and to deal with the backlog. On the contrary, we have added to the budget of the IRB, as part of our balanced refugee reforms, to hire additional decision-makers to accelerate the number of finalizations. In fact, as a result, the backlog of asylum applications has gone from roughly 60,000 down to about 40,000 over the past two years.

The $7 million in spending savings to which you refer, Mr. Davies, come out of the strategic review that was concluded two years ago. This includes, for example, administrative savings, more efficient computer systems—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It won't affect service, you don't think?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It won't affect at all the number of decisions that are rendered with service levels.