Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 26th, 2012

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

The safe third country agreement was negotiated about a decade ago. I think it came into effect in 2003, was it?

[Les Linklater]

It was negotiated in 2002.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, that was in 2002, but it came into effect a couple of years later. This was to deal with a large wave of asylum claims on the Canada-U.S. border that was very disorderly. The premise of the agreement was that foreign nationals living in the United States who come to a Canadian border crossing had already had access to a fair asylum system in the United States, and we discouraged asylum shopping. So they are, in principle, ineligible to make a claim in Canada unless they benefit from one of the exceptions. This legislation does not change that.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you very much.

Now I would like to turn to my friend, Mr. Menegakis. Please excuse me if I am crucifying names. I will learn.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

You know what? You pronounced it excellently. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, you've clearly identified some of the gaps that were found, which led to the conclusion that further reforms were needed. I have a series of questions here I'd like to ask, but just to begin, can you tell us what the projected savings are under Bill C-31?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We estimate that the savings under Bill C-11, which is the basic structure of the new asylum system, to be about $1.8 billion over five years. Most of those savings are to be derived by the provinces, because they'll be paying less money in welfare payments to failed asylum claimants, who will be removed in a matter of months rather than several years.

The main savings that we generate are through the interim federal health program. Altogether, along with the scaled-down benefits that I announced yesterday, we estimate there will be about $100 million in savings on the IFH program over five years, again because we're providing those benefits to people for a few months rather than several years.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

It seems clear to me that we can't keep going with the status quo.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It's $1.6 billion, not $1.8 billion. I'm sorry, I want to correct myself.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Clearly we could not keep going with a status quo system that has created all kinds of backlogs and problems. We know because we did the backlog study. Over one million people are waiting in the backlog. We look at the refugees and we see people clogging up the refugee system, who, quite frankly, are being identified as not legitimate refugees and are then being returned. Applicants—people from democratically elected European countries, who have no legitimate reason for claiming refugee status—are trying to come through a faster channel, if you will, into Canada. What does that do? It clogs things up the system and keeps legitimate people from having an opportunity to come here, people who are really in danger of some sort of persecution in their country of origin.

Perhaps you can elaborate for us, Minister, on what the estimated total processing time for a refugee claim is today.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We estimate that is 1,038 days until someone in the current system has used all of their recourses—1,038 days. But it's actually often longer than that because of delays in removal, and it can take as long as 10 years or more.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

So what will be the change under Bill C-31? What do we project that to be?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

For those we call fast-track claimants, those coming from designated countries of origin, we would see them exhausting all recourses in about 45 days. For those we call the normal claimants, those who are coming from non-designated countries, it would be 216 days, give or take, or a little over six months.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

It would take a little over six months. So we're taking people who are legitimately waiting to be recognized and accepted as having refugee status in this country, who are waiting in the system for 1,038 days, and we're cutting that down by some 75% to 80%. People who legitimately need—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Actually, I have a chart here I'd be happy to circulate. Here are the wait times with the processing times, minimum, in the current system; and here is the fast track under the new system.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

To me that tells the tale, Minister. There are people who really need to come into the country because they're in fear and in danger in their country of origin, and that amount of time is being fast-tracked so they can get in faster. We're weeding away the people who don't have legitimate claims and who are clogging up the system.

It's our obligation under the law, if I'm not mistaken, to assess every single one of those applicants, no matter where they come from. Is that not correct?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'll give an example of what it basically means right now. You come off a plane, let's say coming from Iran via Europe, literally having fresh scars of torture on your back and compelling evidence of persecution.

You come up to the CBSA at the airport and say you're a refugee, and you clearly are. We say take a number, fill out a form, and we'll get back to you in 21 months.

In the new system we'll say fill out the form, come back for your hearing, and we'll give you status in a couple of months. That's one of the virtues of the new system.

I should point out that I find it strange that even though Canada is geographically remote we typically figure in the top four or five destinations for asylum claims worldwide, even though 64% of them are found not to be bona fide claims.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you, Minister.

Your time is up. It's more than up.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

We gave you a few more seconds there.

Now I would like to hand it over to Mr. Giguère.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Good afternoon, Mr. Minister.

I would like to thank the committee for allowing me to ask these questions.

Right now, we have a detention centre in my city, in Laval. I have a lot of questions about it. Have you had the opportunity to visit this detention centre in Laval?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Not yet, but I intend to, since your colleague encouraged me to do so. I am planning to go.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Very well.

I just heard that my colleague Mr. Leung was able to visit a detention centre rather quickly. Would we be able to have quick access to the detention centre in Laval? It would be relevant if we needed to ask questions.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, as members of Parliament, I am sure that the office of the Minister of Public Safety and the CBSA can arrange for access to the detention centre.