Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 1st, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You just talked for two minutes, so they have three minutes.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Okay.

So you each have a minute and a half.

[Dr. Meb Rashid]

I'll give him a bit more time, because I think we've already suggested....

There seems to be a compelling body of literature out there suggesting that detention, even in the best-controlled scenario, certainly can re-traumatize people. I think you'll have a presentation by a couple of colleagues tomorrow around that.

[David Matas]

In Manitoba the refugee or any immigration detainee is put in the general population, because there isn't a specific.... In smaller centres, that's the rule.

In terms of constitutionality, well, I haven't really talked about that, but I am a lawyer. In fact I was a judge in a moot court debate this year—it was held across Canada, but I did it just in Manitoba—where the issue was the constitutionality of this legislation. My colleagues on the panel were lawyers and judges who weren't involved in immigration, and they were astounded that this was actually happening. They were convinced that this was unconstitutional.

I mean, I'd be surprised if this legislation survived. But that's not my only concern, obviously.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

So you feel it's created as a direct attack on the Sri Lankan people, the asylum seekers who are coming here. Is that correct, my extrapolation?

[David Matas]

I wouldn't quite put it that way.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Okay.

[David Matas]

What I feel is that it's inconsistent. As I say, the government has been quite good on human rights in Sri Lanka. It's just that this bill does not carry forward that message consistently. It's at cross-purposes with other things. Also, in terms of regional resettlement or regional policies, they have some good statements; it's just that this is not consistent with that.

So I see the left hand not coordinating with the right hand here.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Basically, if I may, I'm hearing that the government is just sending mixed signals, saying yes, we support the need for human rights and we don't support the violations that are occurring in the island of Sri Lanka, but our actions are actually saying that we do condone the human rights violations that are happening in the island of Sri Lanka. Is that correct, sir?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

That has nothing to do with Bill C-31.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Stop the clock.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

You know—

That's nothing to do with C-31. That's an allegation. If you want to make it outside, make it public, go ahead.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Chair, could—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

But don't make allegations that are completely untrue.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

A point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, we're in a point of order right now.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I didn't hear a point raised.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You wait for his point of order; then you can talk on your point of order.

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

If Ms. Sitsabaiesan wants to make allegations about what her perspective is or is not on the Canadian government or this party, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with Bill C-31. She can go out there and do it in public and get as much press as she'd like to, because I know that's exactly what she's trying to do. It has no place around this table when we're trying to deal with a bill.

Whether you agree or disagree with it, the bill is a very difficult one to work through, and I'd appreciate it if she could stick to the topic and not meander onto human rights issues that have nothing to do with this bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

On this point or another point, Ms. Sitsabaiesan?

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

On this point, and then I also have my own point to raise after this.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Let's deal with this point.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Okay.

On this point, Mr. Chair, if you recall, the witness's statement was primarily based on Sri Lanka. I was taking what he mentioned in his own original statement and reiterating the points the witness had made. So I do believe that my comments were in order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

And I agree. The problem—and I agree, he's out of order—is that both sides are provoking each other, and we should remember that.

Mr. Karygiannis, you have a point of order.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'm glad you agree that Mr. Dykstra is out of order. You spoke to it, so I won't.