Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 29th, 2012

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Part of coming to this committee is doing your homework. This document is on the website and this witness is here. I'm not going to apologize for team members or NDP members having done their homework and gone on the website to see what is there. All kinds of conversations happen, more than saying hello, and I've overheard them.

This document is in the public domain. It's not a secret document. Nobody got it here underground, and what I really find distasteful is that the credibility of the witness's testimony, as to whether it should be heard or whether it should be paid attention to and what should be struck, is being brought up.

Chair, I would like you to make a ruling on how we're going to proceed.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Bateman.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, I have two points to add to this interesting discussion.

One is that by using this document, the opposition members have put a member of the public service in a difficult position, because only the clerk of this committee has had this document.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

How do you know that? How do you know what was submitted to the clerk is on the website?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Excuse me, everyone. Ms. Bateman is speaking.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Number one, the member of the public service has been put in a very awkward position, which she shouldn't have to defend.

Number two, Ms. Sitsabaiesan, on the record, in the testimony—it will be in the blues—said for all of us to hear that she did not know how she got this information, which further places our poor public servant at risk.

I rest my case, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Freeman is next.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thanks, Chair.

It took me about two seconds to find it on the website. There is a list of recent reports, releases, and documents, and the second most recent one—there are a couple in there—is on Bill C-43. I'm just realizing there are a few of them, and they were submitted to this committee today, this morning. It is absolutely possible that Ms. Sitsabaiesan's office did their research, that therefore she is doing nothing but being an excellent member of Parliament, and that she is not involved in any kind of conspiracy, as the opposite side seems to be alleging.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. James.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to say that no one is accusing the opposition of doing something behind the scenes. I was listening to the questions; I've listened very intently to this testimony, and I heard her twice mention a briefing that she had received. When I hear that, I raise the question as to where that briefing came from, and then I find out it was sent to the clerk and hasn't been translated.

I understand that the opposition is saying that briefing is on the website, but until I see the briefing that's been handed to the clerk, how would I know it's the same briefing, sir?

I just want to state that, again, no one is accusing the opposition of pulling any funny games.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I have a list, but I've heard lots, and I think....

Try to be a good girl and proceed.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I do my homework always.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm not accusing you of anything either, but obviously it's caused a bit of an issue here. I don't know who is right, but you may proceed.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I have fantastic staff who do a lot of good research and help to prepare me well for my committee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I shouldn't have a said “be a good girl”; I apologize for that.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you for that as well, Mr. Chair, because I don't appreciate being called a “good girl”. I haven't been a girl for a very long time.

Maybe if we can start my time, I will continue with my questioning of the witness. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Brouwer—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I have my name on the list here to speak. I would like that opportunity.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Sorry, are we on a point now, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're not going to go—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're not going to go for the rest of this time talking about a document that may or may not have been made public or may or may not have been on a website.

I've asked Ms. Sitsabaiesan to proceed and to try not to antagonize the committee. She's undertaken to do that.

You may proceed, Ms. Sitsabaiesan.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Brouwer, I would ask you to maybe elaborate on issues that have come up again and again in my office about unfair visa denials. Residents who invite their family member for a reunion, a wedding, a funeral even, have been denied based on arbitrary criteria and are not given a clear explanation for the rejection.

Rather than fixing these flaws and making our visa system more fair for my constituents or our constituents across the country, what I'm seeing in this bill, and what I'm learning from reading the bill more and more, is that this bill actually furthers the discretionary powers of the minister to deny temporary residency based on vague and arbitrary “public policy considerations”.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you. Your time has expired.

Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Brouwer, I appreciate your presence here today and I hope to have an opportunity to ask you questions.

Earlier today I moved a motion about having the sections of Bill C-45, the second budget bill, that deal with matters that come under the mandate of the committee studied by the committee, and I'm going to ask that we now deal with that motion, Mr. Chairman. I hope we can deal with it quickly.