Evidence of meeting #57 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
We don't want to be adversarial with you. We're just trying to give you the other side of the story.
I know that you have your sound bites—you do the crime, you do the time—but people are individuals.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Actually, that's not my personal sound bite. I don't—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We're going to stop the clock.
Everybody take a deep breath.
It's getting a tad adversarial between the witness and you, Ms. James.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
They didn't know who Jackie Tran was, so I was surprised. I thought I—
4:10 p.m.
Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
I just said I didn't know the circumstances.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
That's fine. I'll give another example.
Another person lost control of a vehicle and killed a pedestrian while street racing. I'm not going to mention the name, because you probably won't know this person either. He was given a conditional sentence of two years less a day and ordered deported from Canada in April 2003, but was not deported until April 2009. It took seven years to deport him due to multiple levels of immigration appeals.
This is the point we're trying to address. These people do not belong in Canada. They have committed serious crimes.
I listened intently to your speech. I have to say that I am actually very alarmed that you believe fraud, impersonation, and theft under $5,000 are a “minor sentence”, as you put it.
The reason I say this is that I actually have another example. Joselito Arganda came to Canada from the Philippines in 1995. I bring this to your attention because you mentioned specifically fraud and theft. This person was sentenced to two years in prison in 2007 for a wide variety of crimes, among them forgery, credit card fraud, possession of counterfeit money, and possession of goods obtained by crime. He reoffended after leaving prison, and was sentenced again, in 2009, for possession of property obtained by crime and for failing to comply with court orders. The following year, he was sentenced for possession of a weapon.
I'm alarmed that you think fraud and theft under $5,000 would be a minor offence.
Then, in the same conversation this first hour, you've indicated that you're very concerned that some of these people who may be deported may be the sole supporter of their family. I'm thinking of this particular person. If he was the sole supporter of his family, then it was through fraud, theft, impersonation, forgery, and so on.
I just have to put that on the table, because I'm very alarmed.
In the opening statement, you talked about Bill C-43, and the major problem you have is that we're taking away the appeal rights of permanent residents. I just have to ask this question: Do you think it's too much to ask permanent residents to not commit serious crimes here in Canada?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
The response is what we've been talking about for the past 45 minutes. It's addressing that issue, I think. What we're speaking to obviously hasn't got through.
There are many factors. Again I'm not saying people should be allowed to stay in Canada. I'm sure if your relative or your constituent were a permanent resident of Canada, and it impacted them so deeply.... I'm not saying they should be able to stay. I'm not the decision-maker. I'm not saying those offences aren't serious. I'm not a criminal court judge. Don't get me wrong. What I'm saying is someone should have an independent right of review.
As we said, we don't believe in the long delays. Those people should be detained; if they are serious criminals and there's extensive criminality, lock them up. I don't have a problem with that.
With respect to whether I think fraud is a serious offence, I didn't talk about somebody who committed offence after offence. I talked about someone who used false identification to get into a bar. I think you can go to any university campus....
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
Sorry, I have to stop. Do you really think that false identification—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
—in a bar is a serious offence? That certainly wouldn't warrant a six-month offence so I find that a little....
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Stop the clock for a minute.
Ms. James, could I have order, please.
Ms. Seligman was very patient. Let her finish her answer to your question.
4:15 p.m.
Immigration Lawyer, As an Individual
Thank you, Chair. I was going to say that using a—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
We have a point of order. We have to stop and listen to that next.
