Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 19th, 2012

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Will Parliament have access to that information?

[Les Linklater]

I imagine that we will keep the systems…

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I mean information about how you are going to proceed.

[Les Linklater]

Yes, absolutely. We will be willing to share with the committee the policy development stages that will be carried out with the commissioner's office.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

According to the User Fees Act, all the ministers must report various fees in effect under their department. How will parliamentarians be aware of the fees, electronic authorizations and biometric measures if these measures are not covered by the act?

[Les Linklater]

We will be guided by the User Fees Act and the Financial Administration Act. We cannot generate revenues that are greater than the cost related to the delivery of the services. It is a very specific framework. Therefore, when we work with the Treasury Board to set fees or determine how to apply them, it is framed by the act.

As for the current eTA fees, we have not yet determined them. We are now discussing the terms with the Treasury Board. But it is important to point out that, in this case, we want to obtain an exemption from the User Fees Act to have the flexibility necessary to establish something fairly simple, fairly quickly.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

My next question has to do with why you want to obtain this exemption. It is for reasons of flexibility?

[Les Linklater]

Flexibility and speed.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Leung.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question has to do with the other countries that have eTAs. I will share with you my experience travelling to India and Japan recently. In India, there was an eTA requirement to provide all the necessary visa documentation and so on, but in Japan it was simply a biometric picture and two index fingerprints at the border.

Just for clarification, in our case, which method are we going to address? This has to do with the detail of the information that goes in. How will Canada address this issue?

[Les Linklater]

CIC is working with CBSA and the RCMP to move out on the biometrics project for certain temporary residents. I appeared with colleagues from CBSA and the RCMP a few months ago to discuss that.

Essentially what we are looking at, for an initial rollout mid-2013, fall 2013, relates to the collection of biometrics for certain temporary resident applications, visa-required countries, probably 30, and, as we made the commitment earlier, we'll be looking at regulations this fall around the countries where that will be put in place. Essentially it's the ten fingerprints plus a live photo of the individual, which would then link that individual's identity to the application they submit.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Okay.

Now, in order to look at the Canadian border issue, we have an air border as well as a land border. As well, in many situations along our lakes, or the St. Lawrence, say, there are many smaller ports of entry. How are we going to protect those borders with CIC, when people land at those non-traditional ways of coming into Canada?

[Les Linklater]

The eTA is designed to apply to the air mode. It won't apply initially to the marine or the land border. As I said earlier, working with the United States under the perimeter strategy to ensure an alignment of the eTA with their ESTA will help to ensure that common threats and risks are dealt with by each country outside the North American perimeter in the first instance, which as a result should facilitate the travel between Canada and the United States, because those significant threats have been dealt with outside the perimeter.

There will still need to be an assessment across the land border around specific admissibilities. For instance, different penalties apply in Canada and the United States with regard to drug offences or DUI offences, depending on the legal construct, but essentially the security threats and the significant criminality threats should be dealt with by both countries outside the perimeter. This would mean that for travel between ports in the Great Lakes, for example, or the St. Lawrence, between Canada and the United States the risks should be mitigated quite significantly.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

What about when you have a foreign national who is neither a U.S. nor a Mexican citizen coming through seaports, such as smaller fishing villages on the Atlantic side or on the Pacific side?

[Les Linklater]

Right. Well, if they are from a visa-free country, the discrepancy between Canada and the United States in terms of visa-free access is quite small. We can provide the committee, through the clerk, with our respective lists, but essentially, each country will have screened individuals who have entered.

For example, if someone from France has an ESTA and is visiting the United States, they would also need the eTA to then visit Canada. If they crossed at the land border, we would expect that the ESTA review by the United States would be robust enough that we would then be able to focus on that very small population through individual examinations, as we do now.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Leung.

After the eTA is implemented, would inadmissible people still be able to enter Canada on a temporary resident permit, or would their inadmissibility make them ineligible for an eTA and prevent their travel in Canada?

[Les Linklater]

A TRP would still be available for individuals who are found to be inadmissible.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I have a couple of questions.

We received a memo from Ms. Stoddart just in regard to the.... I don't know if you have had a chance to look at it. There were some recommendations, four recommendations, that she makes in the report, but I have a couple of questions regarding it.

One of the concerns she lists—and I appreciate and understand that you have met with her and her colleagues, officials from the commission, to review how we would move forward on this—is the lack of transparency and the degree to which details of the program are deferred to regulation.

I wonder if you could just clarify or comment on that.

[Les Linklater]

What we're looking at in the budget implementation act are the legislative parameters to be able to establish eTA, to enable automated decision-making, and to seek exemption from the User Fees Act.

In terms of program design, as Ms. Welbourne said, extensive regulatory work will need to take place to be able to put the frame around and actually enable those legislative authorities. That's where the privacy impact assessment will need to be developed with the OPC. That will be a critical piece of the regulatory impact analysis statement, which will be publicly available. In connection with that, we will want to ensure that the OPC is satisfied with our regime, with our decision-making processes, and with the use of information in terms of how it's collected, how it's used, and how it's disposed of. As I said, there is no plan at this point to share the information. If under our immigration information-sharing treaty Canada and the United States were interested in including information from ESTA and eTA applicants, we'd have to be guided by the OPC's views and certainly by the Privacy Act.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

One of the other points she made in her letter to us was that the information—and this was news to me—will be retained for up to 15 years.

[Les Linklater]

I think that's a standard within the Privacy Act, but again we would work with her office to determine what an appropriate period of time would be. I think 15 is the maximum allowed under the Privacy Act.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Another point is that it should ensure that the new proposals to expand the use of this personal information are carefully scrutinized and that existing programs are regularly assessed to determine if they are necessary and effective. Are we going to work to ensure that?

[Les Linklater]

Absolutely. Perhaps I could ask Ms. Bourry to clarify.