Evidence of meeting #60 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.
A video is available from Parliament.
November 19th, 2012 / 5:20 p.m.
NDP
Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank our witnesses for coming back again. We've seen each other a few times and we're always glad to have you.
I want to talk about the reports from the Auditor General. Chapter 7 of the 2008 Auditor General's report on removals and detentions states that detention decisions are inconsistent.
Section 7.27 states:
While requiring a financial guarantee helps ensure that individuals comply with requirements, we found that the Agency does not analyze the extent to which individuals comply with the terms and conditions of their release. Nor has the Agency set standards or guidelines to determine whether the level of non-compliance results in undue risk to the public. While infrequent, there have been cases where individuals who have been released on condition committed violent crimes.
Would a review of compliance help to prevent individuals who have been released from committing a serious crime or offending?
It's for any of you.
5:25 p.m.
LCol Walter Perchal
The evidence is that there is non-compliance. We have a lot of people running around whom we've lost track of. That's clearly within the public domain. We have tens of thousands of people we asked to appear who are here illegally and whom we have no capacity to manage or identify. We know that.
This is part of the issue we're trying to sensitize you to. We're trying to find out before and not after. Clearly, the after part is not working very well. If that number is in fact what the government has indicated, in the tens of thousands, then we've failed rather badly.
5:25 p.m.
RAdm Donald Loren
Compliance is a difficult subject, whether it be in the workplace or in the government. Review of compliance is imperative if you have a set of instructions and directives to comply with. No one would ever argue that compliance is not a prerequisite for an effectively operating function.
The question is whether you can legislate compliance. It depends on what you want a law like Bill C-43 to do. What is it you want your immigration system to do? Why do you want immigrants to come to Canada?
In the United States, I would suspect the purpose of an immigration system is to protect the United States and its citizens in accordance with the constitution, and to make the United States a better place by bringing in people that give us diversity, strength, and capability, and make us a better nation.
You as legislators must ensure that policies are in place to provide the agencies, whether they be federal, state, or local, with the tools and resources necessary to carry out those policies and comply with the intent and purpose of the law. In the case of the United States, the purpose is to protect the United States and make it better.
It's very difficult to get down and deal with each of the eaches, not that my own Congress doesn't attempt to do that frequently, and not that it might not be warranted in some instances.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
If we're talking about a lack of coordination of resources and training efforts, we've heard a lot of extreme cases to justify this law. A lot of those cases came down to bad coordination, technicalities. People end up staying in this country based on technicalities. They were able to appeal based on technicalities. That's not a question of needing stronger laws. That's a question of needing better resources.
Would you agree, Mr. Platsis?
5:25 p.m.
Program Director, Centre of Excellence in Security, Resilience, and Intelligence, Schulich Executive Education Centre, As an Individual
I think the question goes back to having the right information about people coming in. You could argue that cases for and against have been extreme. For example, I mentioned the case of the marijuana plants. I think that's an extreme case. I think that doesn't pop up too often.
The difficulty with compliance is that compliance is a very difficult thing. I'm not sure you can legislate compliance, but what exactly are you doing? Compliance, by virtue of what it is, is reactionary. You set out what you want to comply with, and then you go back and check against it. I think that's contrary to what we've been trying to say. It's not taking into account what is happening today and tomorrow. I think we need to focus on today and tomorrow to see what sort of vision we want for Canada, what we want the immigration system to do, and how the immigration system fits into the larger Canadian interest.
5:30 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Ms. Freeman, our time has expired. We probably could go on for quite a while. You have raised some great points on all sides.
I'd like to thank our witnesses for making their presentations to us. Thank you very much.
Before I adjourn the meeting, we will have one hour of Bill C-43 on Wednesday. We will have one hour of supplementary estimates. The minister will come for the final hour.
Tomorrow morning we will consider Bill C-45.
The meeting is adjourned.