Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 19th, 2013

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I'd like to pick up on that specific issue. When you talk about acts of treason, acts of war, ultimately you're implying that they've automatically made a decision to renounce their citizenship. I'm trying to come up with an example, and the first thing that comes to my mind would be Afghanistan, where you might have some Canadian citizens protesting very aggressively against the Canadian Forces being physically present in Afghanistan. Would that be considered an act of treason?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Lamoureux.

I don't think a protest is an act of war or treason. My bill specifically says, “if they engage in an act of war against the Canadian Armed Forces”. There are many definitions of “act of war”, nationally or internationally. My intention was with respect to when individuals engage in specific actions which express disloyalty in an offensive way; they pick up arms, etc.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Many might, and I would ask your opinion.... If you have an aggressive citizen from Canada in Afghanistan yelling and screaming, possibly even throwing rocks at Canadian Forces, in your opinion, is that an act of disloyalty?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Lamoureux, my intention is and was, that it would apply to a member of an armed force of a country or as a member of an armed group engaged in an armed conflict.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

There is a great deal of concern in regard to that whole component in terms of the renunciation of citizenship. To what degree are you open to deleting that component of the legislation, or do you feel that is something that has to be in the legislation itself?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I don't think I have any intention to delete the clause of renunciation for those who attack our armed forces. If my bill can be strengthened, if you can come up with some suggestion that would be in line with the spirit and intention of my bill, I am open to looking at it.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

To pick up on the idea of the singling out of the Canadian Forces, one of the thoughts that came across my mind was that of the RCMP, which is a very noteworthy organization, maybe even extending it to police services. Had you given that any thought?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

As I mentioned before, to me the military service is a very unique service, but again, if you can come up with some suggestions that would strengthen the intention of my bill, I'm open to looking into it.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

The minister of immigration is talking about possible changes to your legislation. Do you have a position in terms of what it is the minister of immigration might be referring to, or have you had any discussions as to what it is he might want to amend in your legislation?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I believe you are talking about the comments made by the minister on the inclusion of terrorism. Is that correct?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I have heard about it as you have heard about it. It seems like an attractive one. It seems it is in line with the intention of my bill, but I have to look at it and see the details.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Right. A concern would be that the minister should possibly bring in his own legislation because it would allow for a more thorough diligence, whether it's at second reading, committee stage, hearing different witnesses, and so forth.

Would you prefer to keep your bill stand-alone if it meant you had the support of opposition members, or would you rather see your bill go through with one party supporting it?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I don't think we should play politics with this bill. If we can strengthen this bill rather than bring in another bill, I would suggest we should all work together and make it stronger than it is, if there is anything required to make it stronger.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Last, there are many who would argue that we shouldn't establish two-tier citizenship, and that's in fact in part what we are doing here. We're saying in some situations you only have two years versus three years.

How would you address that? Obviously, you would be opening a can saying that for the forces, it's good enough for two years, but no doubt, as the NDP just made references to nurses and doctors, and I just made reference to the RCMP, there could be many volunteer organizations that could be—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Lamoureux, we're over our time. If you could please wind up the question.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Just your general comment.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Again, Mr. Lamoureux, the answer is the same. It is a very unique service that the men and women in uniform provide to our great nation. I would stick to the respect I want to give to this specific group for the sacrifices they make to keep Canada and Canadian values high.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Leung.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Shory, you and I are both immigrants to this country. I'm sure that for us as naturalized Canadian citizens the process was to go from a landed immigrant to a citizen. We made some very deliberate choices to adopt Canada as our country, and probably a lot of sacrifice to cut the ties of our home country to become Canadian citizens.

What I'd like you to share with us is how your experience as an immigrant and having been through the process of Canadian citizenship has shaped your views and reasons. Why do you choose to put such a high value on, and how do you want to strengthen, Canadian citizenship?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I have been in Canada now for almost 24 years. I came to Canada as an immigrant. As I said in my presentation, there was a reason for me to choose Canada. I could have gone somewhere else, to some other country. There was a reason I chose Canada, and I want to make sure that the reason stays alive.

For my experiences, as I said, in 2009 I spent several days with the armed forces. In 2010 I spent some days with the naval forces. This gave me a chance to look into and have a first-hand experience of these forces. Also in my family back home, my sister was married to an army officer. He retired as lieutenant-general in the army. So I have had a taste of the armed forces.

At the same time, I also realize we should create more and more pathways of integration as well. That was one of the reasons. Also, as I mentioned, I have the highest respect for the armed forces. Definitely I have no sympathy with those who would go out and attack the armed forces.

Those are the beliefs that brought me to introduce this bill. I strongly believe we should not play any politics with this bill. I appreciate that to date we have been working together. I reiterate that I'm open to looking at any suggestion by either side to strengthen this bill.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

As members of Parliament we have a wide-ranging choice of how we present a private member's bill. Certainly, in your riding in Calgary, you can deal with the environment, with trade, with how to handle the integration of immigrants, but why specifically did you choose this one that addresses citizenship? Perhaps what I'd like you to share with us is what is the importance of Canadian citizenship, and how can we strengthen it?

As immigrants, we acquire that, but for people who are born here, there's a different sense of entitlement. I just want you to share that with us.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Absolutely.

As I mentioned in my presentation, I have a majority of visible minorities in my riding. Most of the immigrants do realize and do value their Canadian citizenship and they want to keep the value of Canadian citizenship high. This is my belief, and also the strong support from my constituents as well, before I tabled this bill.

As I mentioned, 87% of my constituents supported it. Canadian citizenship has a high value not only in my mind and the minds of Canadians. Canadian citizenship has a high value around the world. I'd like to keep that value high.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

I also wish to share with you a personal experience.

In 1968 I came to Canada because when I applied for a U.S. student visa, which was at the height of the Vietnam war, as a condition of issuing that visa to me they wanted me to sign the draft. I could be drafted to serve in Vietnam. At that time, in the United States military, if you served three years in active combat duty, you were granted citizenship automatically, as well as all the benefits of the G.I. bill for education.

At the time I chose not to do that because I didn't think I wanted to be drafted into a war that I opposed, coming from Asia. That was the reason I came to Canada. I appreciate the fact that that changed the entire course of my life. After having been in Canada for 40-plus years, we're now in a position where we're here to give back to Canada our shared experience from the transition of an immigrant to our current position as members of Parliament.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to serve with the Canadian military, but I have served in a number of United Nations peacekeeping duties as a civilian adviser. I certainly have seen the sacrifices made by our men and women in uniform.

Having opened this pathway, and having shortened this period for immigration, how does that enhance people's, say, sacrifices or devotion, or the value of Canadian citizenship?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

First off, you mentioned the United States has a similar kind of opportunity. I believe if you serve two years in the armed forces, you automatically become a citizen of America. What I'm proposing is that an individual who signs an agreement to complete basic training, signs an agreement of at least three years, will get a one-year credit toward his residency requirement, which today, for example, is three years.