Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 26th, 2013

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

[Salma Siddiqui]

I am in agreement with him, and I also think that we have to look at it further. What impact does it have on people who are just getting into this radical mentality? We are reinforcing bad habits. Once we say this is not acceptable, it is not acceptable. You lose your citizenship.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you.

Professor, last time the committee met, I asked questions regarding the number of landed immigrants who are members of the Forces. I was quite concerned in regard to the minimal number. Over the last decade, we have recruited maybe 40 to 60 individuals. There are many, including myself, who would argue that this bill will do absolutely nothing to address the issue of recruiting more landed immigrants. Do you find that this is a deficiency in government policy, in that it does not allow for more landed immigrants to become members of the Canadian Forces?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

I would say I still support the bill, because it is a step in the right direction. It's a question of policy, but it's also a question of the application of the policy. So the policy is the cure? No, but there are exceptions, and these exceptions are not widely advertised. Even when landed immigrants do apply, there is the big barrier of the security clearance. Why? Because the great majority of our occupations are labelled as high security, level 2. It's the secret level.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Do you think we would have better forces today if there were more landed immigrants?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

It's not a question of being better; it's a question of opening the door so that everybody has an equal opportunity to apply if they are qualified for the job.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

You're familiar with what this bill will be extending to members of the Forces. Would you think this would be practical for landed immigrants who want to become RCMP officers, or police officers, or other security jobs outside the Canadian Forces?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

I don't know what their recruiting practices are, so I can't speak to that. I can tell you that on the Canadian Forces' recruiting site, it is not very well advertised that permanent residents who are not citizens can apply for specific jobs if they have a specific skill set. I don't know how the RCMP, or other local police forces, or provincial police advertise.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Professor Scoppio.

Mr. Opitz.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Professor, I was just reading some of your material here. You say that more effort is needed to ensure that organizational culture is conducive to having a diverse membership.

Can you explain what you mean by that?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You said more effort is needed to ensure that organizational culture is conducive to having a diverse membership in the Canadian Forces.

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

When we are opening the door to diversity, it's really key that the organization be ready to not just accept the diversity—whether it's gender or culture, religious or linguistic—but to also embrace it and make it part of the team. So if I have a diverse team, as a leader I need to be able to understand their culture. I need to be able to tap into the diversity that each member brings in. The idea is that somebody needs to makes a decision, and it's a two-way process. As your colleague said, when the diverse member comes in, they need to understand that the organization has its own values. In the Canadian Forces, we value command structure. So if your commanding officer is a female and you are a male, you need to be okay with that, for example.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I would submit that this is already happening in a lot of cases, especially in reserve regiments, because they're in urban centres. In fact, in my regiment, at one point we counted 18 different ethnic groups, languages, religions. Everybody was embraced and everybody was part of the team. In fact, I trained some of the first women for combat in combat roles. There was a lot of diversity in those units. I recognized at the time that the regular force, because of where they were located, would typically lag behind in some of that. But I think they have largely caught up. Wouldn't you agree?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

I would say that the Canadian Forces have made a lot of progress. My comments are basically geared towards our being more proactive to increase that diversity. If we're looking at the numbers—since you're bringing up numbers—visible minorities make up 5% of the total force overall. That does not compare at all to the workforce diversity that we have. If we look at gender diversity, we're talking about 15%. These numbers will not increase very fast any time soon, unless we take more proactive measures.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

What would you recommend? I think the Canadian Forces reach out very broadly and very aggressively to recruit and attract everybody.

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

There are a lot of efforts, you're correct. If we look at the advertising, they're trying to make sure there are females, visible minorities, and all kinds of diversity. These are all great steps, but at the end of the day, it has to go from the attraction, recruiting, retention.... It's a process.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

But that's for any recruit.

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

Absolutely.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You can't force a recruit through the door, no matter who they are. The military isn't for everybody, for every individual. It's a calling.

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

Absolutely.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You have to be there and you really want to do that. I don't care where you come from, it's a mindset that you have to be part of.

I just want to shift gears a little bit and talk about radicalization of youth in Canada. Do you work on any of that at RMC?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

No, this is not my area of expertise. That's why I did not speak to that, sir.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Okay.

Do you have any opinions on that, though?

[Prof. Grazia Scoppio]

They would just be my personal opinion, not based on my research. So I don't think I would be informing this committee any further than my colleagues.