Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 26th, 2013

[Furio De Angelis]

Absolutely. We are part of that exercise.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Would you then not agree that we go a great length to try to create a state for many people who might be stateless as refugees?

[Furio De Angelis]

Refugees are not stateless—the majority are not. Some stateless persons may be refugees, and in that case a stateless person who applies for refugee status and is recognized as a refugee.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Understood.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Freeman.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for being here and speaking about the importance of our not creating stateless people. I think you did very well in explaining the practical consequences of having stateless persons. I think it is very important to point out the fact that we would be doing that by leaving the legal resident status in this bill.

I have a question. If we were to revoke a person's citizenship because they committed an act of war against us, and one of our allies who also has this policy or law to revoke citizenship—let's say the U.K.—does the same, would that then create a stateless person? Or is there some means to stop that situation from occurring? I don't know if I'm being clear. A person who is a dual citizen of—

[Furio De Angelis]

Every country applies its own citizenship and nationality laws in isolation, probably. I don't know if there are discussions of some kind. That may be possible. But for UNHCR, as I said, the basic principle is that acts should not result in statelessness. I don't know how to comment more on this.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I don't know if I was clear. It's just so hypothetical, obviously, because many parts of this bill are very hypothetical at this stage. If I were Canadian and British, and both of these countries can remove citizenship, and I commit an act of war against our ally, Britain, which often fight alongside, then in that case—

[Furio De Angelis]

True. Who would be the—

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

—there could be a stateless person.

[Furio De Angelis]

Yes. Who would be the first? I do not have a comment on that. In the case you say, who would be the first, of the two countries—

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

If Britain were to do it before us.

[Furio De Angelis]

—to revoke citizenship? I don't think I have an answer to that.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

It seems such a very strange situation to be putting ourselves in. Could a person be stateless and remain in Canada if they were here?

[Furio De Angelis]

Stateless persons do remain in Canada.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Yes.

[Furio De Angelis]

There are situations that our office is actually working on together with Citizenship and Immigration Canada. We are working with the government to try to find solutions for persons who are stateless—and they do remain in Canada. They come to Canada through the refugee program. They have not been recognized as refugees, and so they remain in Canada as failed asylum seekers, failed refugees. But then of course they cannot be removed.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Right.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Your Excellency....

[Furio De Angelis]

Of course, there is no place to which they can be removed. So as part of its 1961 mandate obligations, UNHCR is contacting the government to try to find a solution, because these people are without rights in Canada, at the margin of society, who cannot be removed.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

They cannot be removed.

[Furio De Angelis]

So this is exactly our work on the prevention of statelessness, which we are doing together with the government.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Your Excellency.

Ms. Williamson, I'm afraid that our time has expired.

On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you for attending today and giving your comments. We appreciate them very much. Thank you.

[Furio De Angelis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.