Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 6th, 2013

[Elizabeth Long]

I actually see the opposite. For example, I see that when people come from countries such as the U.S. or Portugal, and there are no controls on when they leave, a lot of times there's more of a sense that it doesn't really matter since it was so easy for them to come in. People who required visas to come in know it is difficult to come in, and there is a sense that they must maintain their status. Often they're much more concerned about maintaining their status than are people from countries from which visas are not required.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

That was my hypothesis, in fact, that there's a larger issue with people from countries from which visas are not required actually overstaying.

You would agree with that, Ms. Long?

[Elizabeth Long]

Yes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Would you agree?

[Julie Taub]

I would disagree.

[Peter Rekai]

I understand the point. From time to time there is a certain lackadaisicalness among people who don't have visa restrictions. I agree with that, but no, those countries that are economically or politically in difficulty are more likely to produce individuals who don't go back on time.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

We know there are percentages, and you yourself really profile, Peter. I'm wondering if one of the ways in which we can start to see more being approved is just to raise the percentage. For example, today it's 83%. Is there anything wrong with saying that as a government goal we should be shooting to approve 90%? Is that something we should be looking at? Then that would guarantee—

[Peter Rekai]

I think you're looking at it backwards, with respect. I don't think we can shoot for a percentage necessarily. We should be shooting to accommodate as many applications as we can.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

On the ground level, where they're actually reviewing the applications, are any of you of the opinion that an immigration officer has a certain percentage and that's all they can approve? “Here's 100 and I can only approve 85 of that 100.” Do you believe that sort of thing takes place in the minds of an immigration processing officer?

Ms. Long, and then Mr. Rekai.

[Elizabeth Long]

I don't know that there are such criteria, but I think just the perception of the public when there is unreasonableness brings the system into disrepute in that sense.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

For the perception, yes.

[Elizabeth Long]

There is a perception in the public that there are such criteria. When there are unfair decisions in that sense there is a perception.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Lamoureux and Ms. Long.

Ms. James.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome to our guests.

In your opening remarks, Ms. Long, you talked about the fact that MPs' hands are tied and our courts' hands are tied. You seem to imply there's a problem with the visa officer having the power to determine the outcome of an application. I'm sitting here thinking, you have to be kidding. Visa officers are highly trained, highly experienced, and many times they are actually submerged in the culture of that particular country. I was sitting here thinking that as a member of Parliament I would actually never want that responsibility, to make a decision or intervene on a decision that could have a negative outcome. Obviously I don't have the experience, and that's why we rely on our visa officers.

Ms. Taub, when you made your opening remarks and I was sitting here listening to you.... You were talking about the criteria that are being used for TRVs, whether they are student TRVs or others, and you indicated that regardless of what anyone thinks, it's exclusively in the best interests of Canada to have those criteria and to make sure that the visa officers, who are highly trained, have their own discretion and that they use it freely based on their experience. I'm hearing two different spectrums here, and I have to say that I agree with Ms. Taub in that case. I think most Canadians who are actually watching this committee would tend to agree. For example, I go to my doctor and he prescribes something to treat an illness. That's like saying he shouldn't be the one who actually does that prescription. I find that very alarming to hear, just as a side point.

There was another question I heard actually from my colleague across the way, Ms. Sitsabaiesan. She said that if a TRV is denied, they have the option to reapply, and in some cases it could be a financial burden. An application is $75 for a single application and a multi is $150, and they have 14 days to reapply. I'm just trying to figure out why that would be a financial burden to someone, considering they want to come to Canada. If they can't afford the reapplication fees, then there must certainly be a question about whether they can actually afford to come to Canada in the first place. I want to ask if you think that's a financial burden to actually have to reapply at those particular fee structures.

I'll direct that to Ms. Taub.

[Julie Taub]

I don't think it's a financial burden. Again, it is a privilege to come to Canada. It is not a right for anybody to come to Canada to work or to study or to visit. It is a privilege. If they don't meet the criteria.... The criteria have been established to benefit Canada, not to benefit the foreign national who is an applicant, and so be it.

In terms of countries that require visas, as opposed to countries that don't require visas, we are just looking at visitor visas. All citizens from all countries in the world who want to apply to be a foreign worker or a foreign student must have visas, which includes the United States. You need an international study permit.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I'm sorry, could I just interrupt? My time is limited. I'm actually concerned about the costs, so....

[Julie Taub]

No, I don't think it's a financial burden whatsoever.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

We talk about the criteria. Ms. Long made a statement that the “criteria results in serious consequences to the families”. Obviously there are criteria for a reason. If there were no criteria for a visa officer to follow, then it would just simply be an assumption or a guess. Is that correct? The criteria are important to actually assess the application. So regardless of whether someone thinks it has a serious consequence if someone is denied or accepted, the criteria are an important aspect of that application. Is that correct?

[Julie Taub]

That it is.

I understand the point that in family emergencies there should be a bit more latitude; however, in order to deal with the risk of a foreign national not returning to the country, the Canadian family could be requested to post a bond that would be repaid once their visiting family member leaves. Then there would be more certainty of compliance.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

You just mentioned family emergencies. That is a topic that came up with our CIC officials. They indicated that in some cases, if the visa application is denied, they can apply for a permit instead.

[Julie Taub]

That is a resident permit. Yes.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

That is a possible solution. In this case, in which we're talking about fees, what do you think about charging a higher fee or an additional fee for a quicker response or a quicker application or a quicker...the ability to get here?

I see Mr. Rekai is also shaking his head, so perhaps I could ask that question directly to him.

[Peter Rekai]

Absolutely.

For expedited visas, when you need to be here on an urgent basis, almost all people would be willing to pay extra, as they do for passports when they need a passport overnight. We now have a passport service. We don't have to call our MP, as we used to have to 10 years ago, to get a passport in 24 hours. We pay extra for it, and people do it gladly.

I think overwhelmingly people would pay for that expedited service.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. I know someone who has just done this to get a very quick passport. It is a service that I think most Canadians appreciate.

Ms. Taub, I wanted to touch very briefly, time permitting—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have one minute.