Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 26th, 2014

[Robert Orr]

It would be the Immigration and Refugee Board that would make that determination, not CIC per se. As I mentioned earlier, there have been about 600 applications in the last couple of years that the IRB has received where there have been forced marriages as a basis for the claim. On spousal abuse, I don't have the numbers.

To be a refugee you have to look at the refugee definition, which is in terms of whether you would meet that or not. It might determine whether or not there is adequate protection in the country which you are from to deal with that sort of situation. That would certainly be a major factor.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

That concludes the third round. We have one more round.

I would remind members that the bells are supposed to ring at a quarter after five.

I have one question, if my colleagues would permit me to ask it.

We look at the attitude in different societies towards women in other countries, whether you're talking polygamy, forced marriage, or arranged marriage, just the treatment of women. It seems to me that we automatically move to the area of profiling, where some countries are treated differently.

Are there many accusations of profiling? There's no question it's quite open. The way some societies treat women is quite different from the way we do in this country, for example.

[Robert Orr]

Mr. Chair, I think we would say that we try to look at each case individually, and we are trying to look at the case in terms of the cultural norms as well. We're sensitive to the cultural norms and what would be acceptable. For instance, is arranged marriage part of the norm there? If so, fair enough; we are prepared to look at that accordingly.

I don't think it's a matter of profiling so much as a matter of looking at the individual case on a case-by-case basis and then determining whether the marriage is valid or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Orr, you mentioned earlier that Bill C-10 in March 2012 amended the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to provide the CIC minister with the discretionary authority to instruct officers not to issue work permits to those who could be vulnerable to abuse or exploitation, including sexual exploitation or human trafficking. On July 14, 2012, CIC stopped processing new work permit applications from temporary foreign workers intending to work for businesses related to the sex trade, namely, strip clubs, escort services, and massage parlours. This policy was codified in regulation in December 2013.

Could you tell us if there are still cases in which CIC is catching sex-trade workers? In your opinion, has this legislation been a positive step so far?

[Robert Orr]

I don't have information about whether there are still cases of this, but I think this change that you've identified was a very positive one and did help a number of people who were in vulnerable situations.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

How do you think the spousal sponsorship program should be changed in order to address the abuse of the program?

[Robert Orr]

Mr. Chair, as I think we tried to identify, there are a number of different ways in which we are trying to approach and trying to ensure that vulnerable people are protected and receiving the assistance they require when they find themselves in difficult situations. The variety of ways in which we have changed some legislation, the better training for our officers so that they are more sensitive and attuned to the possibility of the situation, the work with the settlement organizations and the assistance they are providing, I think all of this together makes quite a good package of means to deal with the situation. Is it perfect? No. Can we solve all the problems? No. But I think we're making major efforts in the right direction.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

As we heard earlier, throughout January the minister conducted round tables on this issue all over Canada. Some of the main themes that came out of the round tables actually centred around education, both for men and for women, and the fact that education must be accessible to newcomers before and after they arrive in Canada. Immigrant men need to better understand the consequences of their actions, and immigrant women need to better understand the courses of action they can take when they find themselves in those difficult situations.

How can CIC take action on this? What are some of the programs that could be introduced?

[Robert Orr]

There are a number of different things we could look at. Certainly, I think one of the things we would like to explore more is what we could do in a greater way for orientation before people arrive in Canada, and what opportunities there might be there. That's something that I think we would want to explore.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Have there been any other amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in regard to protecting women immigrants?

[Robert Orr]

I have outlined the principal ones. I don't think there are any others, Mr. Chair.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Another theme of the round tables was that the immigrant communities need to be better informed on the rights of women and of newcomers. They should be armed with a vast amount of resources. What kinds of resources do you think we can share with immigrant communities, and how can we ensure that they get the information they need?

[Ryhan Mansour]

I'll take that one.

I think it's about continuing to engage and to work with our service provider organizations, SPOs, that are currently very active in these activities. The settlement program actually does have as part of its funding priorities services dedicated to the needs of immigrant women in all immigration categories. There are a few of these that are currently funded across the country that maybe we can provide more information on to the committee.

It's about working with our existing partners, but also with other partners that are growing outside in the communities. We are also funding initiatives such as local immigration partnerships, whereby communities come together and address community action plans to inform others about the needs that immigrants in their communities are facing. These are gathered in reports that inform our program investments. I think this is how, by continuing to work with our settlement partners—at present, there are over 500 of them across the country—as well as building on what we currently are doing both pre- and post-arrival, it can be done.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Blanchette-Lamothe, please.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me go back to the new conditional permanent residence status for sponsored spouses. You did not have time to answer my question about other countries that use the same status as the one we implemented in Canada in 2012. Could you tell us what problems and concerns those countries are dealing with in terms of the conditional permanent residence status for sponsored spouses?

[David Manicom]

I don't think I have detailed information in my own mind right now about their experience.

I don’t quite understand what you are asking. Would you like to know about the experience of other countries with the conditional status or with women in abusive situations or—

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

If you don’t have the information now, please forward it to the committee through the clerk.

When the government announced the new status, it said that other countries had the same type of status. Those countries said they were experiencing obstacles, concerns, challenges and problems with the conditional status. I wanted to know whether you were aware of that and whether you had discussions on the conditional status challenges and problems experienced by those countries. If you are aware of those challenges and problems, could you share them with us now or very shortly?

[David Manicom]

I will see what I can do. It is quite difficult to describe the experiences of other countries.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

You can relate the experiences to us the way those countries have expressed them. If you have information on the issue, I would appreciate it if you would share it with the committee.

I would now like to talk about a hypothetical situation. I understand the purpose of this new conditional status, but some feel that this new status could leave sponsored women in precarious situations, giving a lot of power to the husbands already settled in Canada who sponsor their spouses from other countries. For instance, a situation like that may occur if a man who married and sponsored a woman wants to separate after a year and a half because she cannot have children or because she has fallen into depression or has had trouble adapting since she arrived. In those circumstances, can the man really end the marriage and send his wife back to her country of origin?

[Robert Orr]

I don't want to get into hypothetical situations, but the basis of this is, if there is not a true marriage, if there is not a genuine marriage, then yes, the conditions may come into force at that point.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

How will it be proven that the marriage was not legitimate? If he no longer wants his wife, can he show that the marriage was not legitimate? What type of evidence will he need to show that his marriage was not legitimate—

[Robert Orr]

Yes.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

—if he wants to send his wife back or if he no longer likes her after a year or a year and a half?

[Robert Orr]

In a situation where there is a difficulty of that sort, the immigration officer would be considering both sides of the story, would not just be listening to one side. The officer would be very open to hearing from both sides what the situation is and to evaluating it on a case-by-case basis.

The guidelines for the officers are very extensive and are publicly available. They go into the sorts of things that the officers should be taking into consideration when they're making a determination about this.