Evidence of meeting #15 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lesley Soper  Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
Geoffrey Leckey  Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Operations Division, Canada Border Services Agency
Jean Cormier  Director, Federal Coordination Centres, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Melpa Kamateros  Executive Director, Shield of Athena Family Services
Siran Nahabedian  Social Worker for Female Victims of Conjugal Violence and of Domestic Violence, Athena's House, Shield of Athena Family Services
Richard Kurland  Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual
Deepa Mattoo  Staff Lawyer and Acting Executive Director, South Asian Legal Clinic of Ontario (SALCO)

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Sandhu.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Thank you for being here.

In the past couple of years we've seen an increased focus on fraud marriages. In fact we've seen a new obligation for sponsors. How has this affected the CBSA and of course their resources? Do you have enough resources? Obviously there is increased demand in regard to your services. Has the government provided you with the adequate resources to deal with all these cases?

4:05 p.m.

Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency

Lesley Soper

Marriage as a convenience is one of many types of immigration fraud we pursue as an organization. Within the resources we currently have I think we do quite well in pursuing, even as far as criminal prosecutions, the serious challenges to our immigration laws in Canada.

Certainly as an organization we are always trying to balance off many priorities we have from goods to people, and immigration violations, and customs violations, so it's always a balance we have take into consideration. Things like marriage as a convenience in our immigration fraud work remains a priority of the organization.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

How many investigators do you have to investigate fraudulent marriages and marriages of convenience across Canada?

4:05 p.m.

Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Operations Division, Canada Border Services Agency

Geoffrey Leckey

Across the country in total we have approximately 220 criminal investigators and somewhere above 500 inland enforcement officers.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

When a fraudulent marriage occurs, it takes a long time for an investigation to take place. I know one case in my constituency has taken over five years, and it's still being investigated.

Is that the norm? Does it take a long time to investigate these cases?

4:10 p.m.

Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency

Lesley Soper

Certainly.

I think this particular area is highly challenging for officers to investigate, given the burden of proof required to demonstrate that a relationship was entered into solely for the purposes of immigration. Human relationships are complex, and so any investigation that would flow from that would be likewise complex. They can be very challenging.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

What steps does the CBSA take? In this particular case are there any steps being taken to safeguard this particular person who has been defrauded by this other person to come into the country, yet they are still in the country, and the case is being investigated for five years?

Are there any steps taken to protect the person who has been victimized in this marriage?

4:10 p.m.

Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency

Lesley Soper

Obviously those are highly problematic cases where it's hard to prove the person has been victimized. We try to do our best to ensure we pursue those cases but as I said, they are complicated cases to bring evidence to bear that would allow for finality.

I think some of the statistics Geoff spoke of earlier where we have quite a number of referrals, but the likelihood of gaining a prosecution for wilful fraud is a very small percentage where we can bring a case to success in the criminal prosecution space....

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Mr. Leckey, you pointed out that there were 392 cases referred to you.

4:10 p.m.

Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Operations Division, Canada Border Services Agency

Geoffrey Leckey

That is right.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

How many of those were convicted or sent back?

4:10 p.m.

Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Operations Division, Canada Border Services Agency

Geoffrey Leckey

So far seven have gone to court. Two of them are still before the court of the five that are resolved that resulted in the criminal charge being successful.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

So how many of those 392 have actually been sent back or are out of this country?

4:10 p.m.

Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Operations Division, Canada Border Services Agency

Geoffrey Leckey

I would have to get back to you on that.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Would you provide that information to the committee?

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Again, Mr. Leckey, it would be to the clerk, please. Thank you.

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

When we are talking marriages of convenience, are we talking about a collusion between both partners, or just maybe one partner is committing this particular crime?

4:10 p.m.

Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency

Lesley Soper

It's much more straightforward when both partners are party and we have evidence to that effect. It can happen that a person may be unaware of the intent of the person being sponsored. And that does occur also.

Again it can be somewhat challenging to produce evidence that would result in a case.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you, Mr. Sandhu.

Mr. Shory.

March 4th, 2014 / 4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Witnesses, thank you for coming to enlighten us this afternoon. I want to thank both organizations for their assistance and for the service they provide to Canadians and of course in some instances to other countries as well.

Mr. Leckey, I was very happy to hear you say that since 2008 the number of marriages of convenience has decreased. And of course credit goes to the CBSA for enforcement. At the same time, I also believe that credit goes to the government, which made the required changes and also communicated those changes to those who abuse the system.

I will be asking both organizations for their feedback, because the CBSA and the RCMP both have front-line officers.

Does your organization offer recommendations to Public Safety and the justice department? And what about CIC? Do you offer any recommendations to CIC as well? I'd like to hear from both organizations.

4:10 p.m.

Supt Jean Cormier

I'll start if I may. A point regarding the RCMP on that in particular is that in most cases, the RCMP is not the lead agency in these types of investigations. So we would work alongside CIC or the CBSA.

As far as providing recommendations, it would be more information sharing in some cases. Sometimes that's bilateral, between the different agencies.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

What are you seeing?

4:10 p.m.

Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency

Lesley Soper

I would say that we certainly work very closely with our policy leads on the immigration act and with CIC to ensure that what we're seeing on the ground, as well as in some of the issues that we encounter, is being addressed in the way we set out policy guidance to our field, both overseas in CIC's visa operations and in our own field at the port as well as in investigations inland.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Devinder Shory Conservative Calgary Northeast, AB

Marriage fraud and marriages of convenience are one thing, but violence is another area that I have heard about from my constituents. Now with all the conditional visas issued to newcomers, there is also a smart trend in which people start getting into violence, but don't leave the home right away in those sorts of circumstances.

If someone is charged and convicted of domestic violence, and if the convicted person is a permanent resident, what is the process for revoking their permanent residency and is there enforcement to send that individual back to where they belong?