Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 4th, 2014

[Lesley Soper]

I looked at the testimony from Citizenship and Immigration last week in which they had indicated some numbers. We are in the process of verifying the numbers. This mechanism has only been in place since 2012. I understand from my colleagues at Citizenship and Immigration Canada that collecting the data on the system is not quite there yet, so we would have to provide that information to you at a later date.

[Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe, NDP, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

You don't have the figures for the moment.

I would like to give my last minute to my colleague.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you.

Earlier when you were talking about forced marriages, you said that there were forced marriages of Canadians who are being forced into marriage in another country. You weren't able to say which countries. Can I ask why you're not able to share with us which countries these incidents are taking place in?

[Geoffrey Leckey]

I think I wouldn't want to use this forum to generate what might turn into diplomatic problems with other countries.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Okay. I have a very short time. I understand.

I have the situation of a constituent of mine who has now been deported. Last time I asked CIC a question, they told me to ask the CBSA, and you're here. A woman who was here from another country, who came here from an extreme situation of violence, now has been deported and sent back to that country, where the only person she knows is her extremely abusive spouse. There are marks all over her and her daughter. She has been sent back to that country. Why would these kinds of things happen?

[Lesley Soper]

Obviously I can't speak to any cases, but I think that under the structure of the act such as it is now, there wouldn't have been.... The act doesn't compel the individual to stay with an abusive spouse in Canada. I would understand that the individual was in Canada to get away from the spouse and perhaps looked at avenues to seek permanent residency or to seek refugee status in Canada, and those are certainly legitimate and open mechanisms to do so—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Absolutely.

[Lesley Soper]

—with many checks and balances in that system.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. McCallum.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses.

Can you give me an idea—not necessarily official statistics, but according to your time at the CBSA—of how big a problem this is? Of all the spouses who come into the country, what percentage would you suspect of a possible marriage of convenience, and what percentage might ultimately be detained or deported?

[Lesley Soper]

Certainly. I'll start, and perhaps Geoff can carry on.

I also read with interest the statements of Citizenship and Immigration Canada on this subject last week. It is a two-step process, in effect. The marriage is looked at from the point of view of issuing a visa overseas, and then in Canada, where something doesn't look quite right in the marriage, it might be referred to us for our interest.

I think Geoff gave some of the statistics on the numbers of cases that we look at. I don't have them offhand. I'll let him remind you of those, but I believe that Citizenship and Immigration Canada indicated that about 30% of the sponsorships that come forward present as being not bona fide.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I don't remember that number being nearly as high. In terms of the percentage of the people at the border whom you deal with, what percentage of those pose some questionable behaviour or ultimately are not admitted?

[Lesley Soper]

When they present at the border to be landed as permanent residents in Canada, I think most permanent residency applicants present as bona fide permanent residents.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

So is that 98%?

[Lesley Soper]

We could look at that—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Over the last decade, let's say, do you think the incidence or number of marriages of convenience has gone up, or has it been stable or declining?

[Geoffrey Leckey]

Since 2008, our figures show that the incidence of marriages of convenience has decreased overall. We attribute that in part to increased enforcement by both CIC and the CBSA, by the Government of Canada's public awareness campaign.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

If the vast majority of people coming in are legitimate, and the incidence of marriages of convenience has been falling since 2008, to what extent are you inconveniencing or delaying the entry of legitimate people? I'm concerned not only about illegitimate people getting in, but legitimate people being delayed or harassed. To what extent are innocent people caught in the crossfire, if you will?

[Lesley Soper]

When a person presents at the Canadian border with their permanent residency papers, coming to be admitted as a permanent resident for the first time, we trust that the paperwork and all the necessary checks have been done by Citizenship and Immigration. It's a very rare case when something isn't right within the paperwork when we would detain or question the individual at the border about the circumstances of their permanent residency.

[Lesley Soper]

They would have to be presenting significant suspicions to an officer.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

That's a little different. Now you're saying it's very rare; that was my first question. So 1% or 2% of people seem to be a problem, or hardly ever. Is that what you're saying?

[Lesley Soper]

In your first question, I thought you were capturing the whole process—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

No, I meant just from the CBSA point of view.

[Lesley Soper]

I think it's very rare across all lines of permanent residency and the work we do at the border.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay.