Evidence of meeting #15 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lesley Soper  Acting Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
Geoffrey Leckey  Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Operations Division, Canada Border Services Agency
Jean Cormier  Director, Federal Coordination Centres, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Melpa Kamateros  Executive Director, Shield of Athena Family Services
Siran Nahabedian  Social Worker for Female Victims of Conjugal Violence and of Domestic Violence, Athena's House, Shield of Athena Family Services
Richard Kurland  Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual
Deepa Mattoo  Staff Lawyer and Acting Executive Director, South Asian Legal Clinic of Ontario (SALCO)

5:15 p.m.

Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual

Richard Kurland

We don't want to take the U.K. route, I think, in all things. A controversial policy in the United Kingdom is to impose a minimum language standard for spouses. I heard testimony: language, language, language. Do we want to go that route?

On the other hand, practically speaking, it's called the Internet. Are these people prevented from accessing the Internet? If not, simple video streaming in the languages of the cultural communities at a known Internet spot can inform. Not all people, some will be locked up in chains, the usual horror stories, but that's a practical, low-cost alternative.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

What about raising the age of consent to give them more ability, more strength to access that?

5:20 p.m.

Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual

Richard Kurland

The age of consent—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Just for the record, I did object to that, but we'll allow the questions to stakeholders—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

He's a stakeholder.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Of course he is, but I just want you to be clear on my ruling that it's perfectly all right.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

I am clear, sir.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

For administrators it's inappropriate.

5:20 p.m.

Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual

Richard Kurland

I have looked at age of consent when it comes to women's issues in the field of polygamy. Polygamy is an overlooked area affecting choice parts of Canada, and age of consent, being a provincial matter, is relevant when it hits the immigration enforcement radar. So before tinkering in the consent zone, maybe get a feel of the numbers of persons affected. I suspect you'll see that the numbers are inconsequential. Every individual is important, but in terms of the numbers sufficient to justify government intervention, I have some doubts.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Ms. Kamateros, would you care to comment on that same point, please?

5:20 p.m.

Executive Director, Shield of Athena Family Services

Melpa Kamateros

Thank you.

I'm sorry I tried to interject earlier. When I hear things such as the use of the Internet in order to inform people...we have our clients, and I'm sure the social worker can attest to that. They don't even know how to use public transport because the linguistic issues are so severe, because the isolation is so bad, because very often they are controlled not only by the spouse, but also by the extended family they are living with. So I have my doubts as to whether or not Internet access would ameliorate the situation.

Regarding the clients who we see, particularly in Quebec, we believe that prevention is a better route to go, and we believe the client, the woman, should be part of the sponsorship process right from the beginning. The information should be given to her in the language of origin. It should be followed up after.

With our cultural intermediaries we know for a fact that many times the interview is not done once they reach Canada, or if it is done, it's done in a superficial way. More in-depth information should be given to the women, and they should be an integral part of the sponsorship process. It's something that I think is really not happening now.

If we talk about the arranged and the forced marriages, we have to say that we have, through the intervention of the cultural intermediaries, seen how sponsorship fraud is really an issue within certain communities. Because when we have given the legal information sessions, the issue of sponsorship fraud and also multiple marriages is something that comes out very often. A lot of women, young girls, are sent off to their native countries to get married, and they marry somebody, a Canadian resident. They come back to Canada and they find there's another wife here. So the question is, how does this wife come in? And how did the first wife come in? How have they come in, and how have they been declared by the people in Canada, by the Canadian residency?

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Is there time for Ms. Mattoo to answer?

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

If you can in one minute.

5:20 p.m.

Staff Lawyer and Acting Executive Director, South Asian Legal Clinic of Ontario (SALCO)

Deepa Mattoo

From our experience, there are two windows that we missed. I think my colleague Siran Nahabedian has touched upon that. The two windows are before they come here and after they come here. I have to completely agree with her that in many cases, those two windows are completely missed by the Citizenship and Immigration offices at the visa post, as well as when they land here with their first contact.

If those two opportunities are taken and the counselling is done at those two opportunities, I'm sure we can get the isolation solved.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Chungsen Leung Conservative Willowdale, ON

Thank you.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you.

Ms. Blanchette-Lamothe please.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to give Mr. Kurland and the representatives from Shield of Athena the opportunity to answer a question my colleague asked earlier.

I would like to know whether you have anything to add about what should be done to break the isolation of sponsored women who arrive in Canada and to help them integrate into the labour market in a way that reduces their vulnerability.

Ms. Mattoo has already commented on this. So this is for Mr. Kurland and, then, the representatives from Shield of Athena to see if they have anything to add.

5:20 p.m.

Policy Analyst and Lawyer, As an Individual

Richard Kurland

Actually, I am wondering how it is that these people arrive Canada and what their status was.

Once they arrive in Canada, they marry. However, what is quite relevant is how they got into the country. Perhaps our witnesses in Montreal can elaborate on that.

In my opinion, if a person enters Canada with a particular status and asks Immigration Canada to change the rules to obtain a second status, there are consequences and risks.

My fundamental point is essentially you unbuckle yourself from the immigration system at a certain point in time. If you're inland, legally here, entering into a marriage that may or may not work out, or common-law relationship that may or may not be there for the right reason, when does the responsibility of Immigration Canada end? Isn't this issue part of a wider issue to protect women's rights? That's why my recommendation is: don't silo this at Immigration Canada. Do not do it.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

I'll now address the representatives from Shield of Athena.

How can we help sponsored women who arrive here to integrate into the labour market and break the isolation? Do you have any comments on that?

5:25 p.m.

Social Worker for Female Victims of Conjugal Violence and of Domestic Violence, Athena's House, Shield of Athena Family Services

Siran Nahabedian

Yes.

In our recommendations and in light of our experience with these women, I think the gateway to break the isolation is language courses. Without language courses, without knowing French or English, these women cannot get information, find out where to find work, how to find work, or even draft their résumé, and so on.

We need to break the isolation. I say this from experience because there are a lot of women who have been in Canada for years whose husbands have prevented them from taking a French course. Language courses should be mandatory and even be a condition of permanent residence. Language courses are the gateway that will help break this isolation.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Okay. Thank you.

5:25 p.m.

Social Worker for Female Victims of Conjugal Violence and of Domestic Violence, Athena's House, Shield of Athena Family Services

Siran Nahabedian

It should be mandatory.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Another point that Shield of Athena raised is the information that we should provide in the mother tongue of the sponsored person from the start of the sponsorship process. Do you mean that the information should be given even before the person arrives in Canada, and we should ensure the person gets the information?

5:25 p.m.

Executive Director, Shield of Athena Family Services

Melpa Kamateros

Yes, of course. That is one of the things I said at the start of my presentation. The woman has to be informed at the very start of the process and after she first enters Canada. Afterwards, her progress should be followed.

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe NDP Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

Are you talking about automatic follow-up for all these women?