Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was province.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Apropos to your last question, what would you say are some of the past experiences with the provinces on the Canada social transfer, so, for example, the $20-million penalty or.... I'll leave it to you.
Acting Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I'll leave it to my colleague from Finance Canada.
Chief, Canada Health Transfer (CHT)/Canada Social Transfer (CST) and Northern Policy , Department of Finance
I think with respect to the $20-million penalty, you are referring to an incident with the Province of British Columbia. On December 1, 1995, they put in place a three-month residency requirement for those collecting social assistance who were arriving from other provinces and countries. The transfer program that applied at that time was called the Canada assistance plan, and that residency requirement was a violation under that program at that time. So, the federal human resources minister at that time, who was responsible for the act, did impose withholding of CAP transfer payments, and ultimately it was the $20-million penalty that reflected savings, and the way that concluded was B.C. did eventually remove that residency requirement.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
These amendments, then, would therefore just prevent this from occurring again should provinces choose to impose a minimum wait period?
Chief, Canada Health Transfer (CHT)/Canada Social Transfer (CST) and Northern Policy , Department of Finance
I guess, first off, from my understanding of what British Columbia put in place, it was a global restriction, so it applied to those arriving from the rest of Canada and from out of country. To the extent that the specific proposal in C-43 is that a minimum residency requirement could not apply to Canadian citizens, so those who were coming from other provinces and moving to B.C., that would still constitute a violation of the Canada social transfer today, and so the Minister of Employment and Social Development would be required to embark upon the withholding process that is laid out in the act and refer the matter to Governor in Council for a withholding as it saw fit.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Now, if this amendment passes, are there any next steps that the federal government plans to do? For example, would the provinces be encouraged to implement the wait period or will the government allow the provinces to make their own decisions? What's your thought on that?
Acting Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Again, that's not part of the bill. The bill is facilitative, and it doesn't compel the provinces to introduce such a measure. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to speculate about the future actions of the government in terms of whether it would encourage provinces to move in a certain direction or not.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Other than social assistance payments through the province, what other supports are available for low-income individuals?
Acting Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I could start and my colleague can follow up.
I think for low-income individuals there is a range of supports through the tax system federally or provincially—low-income tax credits, GST rebates—a large range of benefits that would apply to all Canadians. It would be variable in terms of the benefits that are available to foreign nationals.
Chief, Canada Health Transfer (CHT)/Canada Social Transfer (CST) and Northern Policy , Department of Finance
I have nothing to add to that, no.
Conservative
Ted Opitz Conservative Etobicoke Centre, ON
Based on your research, have you found a distinction between the various types of refugee claimants who seek the protection of Canada? For example, are all refugee claimants genuine?
Acting Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I wouldn't go to the research necessarily, but by definition the process of the Immigration and Refugee Board tells us that there are some claims that are founded and some claims that aren't founded. They have a determination process and there are criteria that are looked at. I think right now the statistics are that there's an acceptance rate of 55%. So about 45% of the claims at this stage—I think the data is from 2013—are unfounded.
Conservative
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here this afternoon.
Mr. Chair, it would have been nice if we had actually had more meetings on this subject matter. We've had many witnesses who want to appear in front of this committee to express their opinions and concerns in regard to the impact this particular change is going to have in the communities that are serving not only refugees but the very people who are being affected by these changes.
We would have liked to have the Minister of Citizenship appear before this committee to answer some of the questions that he should be answering, because I think he's shirking his responsibility to answer some questions that Canadians legitimately want answered.
Having said that, we've heard from the minister many times, and his spokesperson. I'll quote you an article that appeared in The Globe and Mail on October 28. The spokesman for Minister Alexander is cited as saying, “the changes are expected to save money”.
My question to Mr. MacDonald is that I guess you don't agree with that statement that it's going to save any money. What I've heard from you is that this is not going to have any impact on transfer payments.
Chief, Canada Health Transfer (CHT)/Canada Social Transfer (CST) and Northern Policy , Department of Finance
That's correct. It won't have any impact on transfer payments because no other aspect of the Canada social transfer is being affected. The equal per capita allocation of the total amount that's set in legislation for the year is going to apply regardless.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
In fact then the minister's office is giving wrong information to the newspapers, and Canadians for that matter.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, these are false statements. It's the second time in the very short few minutes that Mr. Sandhu has spoken already that he is being provocative. We have officials here. He can ask officials. If he wants to make political statements, this is not the forum for them.
Conservative
The Acting Chair Conservative Devinder Shory
Thank you.
Mr. Sandhu, I would suggest that you stay within the purview of questions. We are here for technical assistance and clarification, so you may want to ask questions that are relevant to our meeting.
Davenport, NDP
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, are you saying that no member of this committee could utter a provocative statement in this meeting? Do we have to define “provocative”? I mean, come on.
Conservative
The Acting Chair Conservative Devinder Shory
What I'm saying, and what the point of order is, is that this meeting is for clarification. The representatives from the department are here to answer the technical questions. If Mr. Sandhu wants to make political statements, he has all the rights to make statements outside of this meeting.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm basically stating for the record what the minister's office has said and what the ministry's officials are saying here today.
I'm going to read part of your briefing here, Matt, where you said the following:
It is important to note that, under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, to obtain a visitor visa or a study or work permit, all foreign nationals must demonstrate that they can support themselves and their dependents financially for the duration of their stay.
You've listed temporary foreign workers, international students, visitors.
Do refugees have to demonstrate financial well-being when they come to Canada?
Acting Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
No, they're not subject to the same provision of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in that respect.
NDP
Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC
Okay.
I've heard the term “facilitative” many times now. To me, facilitative here is that you're going to facilitate provinces to be able to cut social assistance to the refugee claimants. If I understand correctly, social transfers are based on per capita transfers to each province. Would refugees be included in calculating per capita transfers?