Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 31st, 2015

[Joanne Klineberg, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice]

The property-related offences where the value of the property is over $5,000—

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Yes, exactly.

[Joanne Klineberg]

—are also punishable by a maximum of 10 years, and extortion, though that does involve some threatening conduct. There are some property offences that would still potentially be provocation.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

That was exactly my point.

Thank you.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

This is something that we could look at.

In reflection and analysis, I think we came to the conclusion that the non-violent offences are very unlikely to be used. In fact there is no case in which they have been used that has been put before me, and I've looked at scores of such cases. The vast majority of the cases that would now be relevant in any way to this kind of defence, which is only used infrequently, will be violent offences.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Mr. Aspin.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for being with us this morning, along with your officials, to address such important legislation.

I think it's very important that this bill demonstrates that this government is taking action to strengthen our laws to ensure that no young girl or women in Canada becomes a victim of early or forced marriage, polygamy, so-called honour-based violence, or any other form of harmful cultural practice.

Minister, you touched upon the peace bond element. Could you please provide a little detail about the peace bond and how it would work? Would it prevent parents from travelling with their children? What type of evidence is required to establish the peace bond and who could approach the court for a peace bond in these cases?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thanks very much for the question.

The peace bond is a measure that would allow real limitations on a family from removing a child or a young girl from Canada for the purposes of allowing a forced marriage or an underage marriage to take place, by essentially allowing a court to set limits on the behaviour of the family in question. It could be suspension or lack of access to a travel document. It could be an order not to travel. It could be an order to report to the court on a regular basis on certain fronts to make sure that what had been agreed, and what was feared with regard to forced or early marriage, doesn't happen.

In other words, it allows a court to set limits on the behaviour of the family, including the travel of the family, that would prevent a forced or early marriage from happening either in Canada or outside of Canada, without criminal charges having to be laid. That is the advantage.

We all know there is a phenomenon—police officers will be particularly aware of this—of family members not wishing or not being able to press charges against one another. A peace bond is an alternative solution that has an equally beneficial result: the prevention of an early or forced marriage.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Okay, sir, and what type of evidence would be required to establish a peace bond?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'll ask my colleagues to give an example.

[Gillian Blackell, Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Sector, Department of Justice]

Thank you.

As opposed to the standard of evidence in criminal matters, which is beyond a reasonable doubt, the application for a peace bond is based on a civil standard of evidence, so it's a balance of probabilities. Therefore, the evidence would be that it would be more likely than not that the defendant would commit an offence related to forced marriage. On that basis, the evidence that the crown prosecutor would bring to the court to establish that would be sufficient to have the peace bond emitted.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you very much.

Polygamy, as we know, is already illegal in Canada and has been since the 19th century. We know that unfortunately this barbaric practice is still a reality in Canada despite this.

Mr. Minister, how would this bill affect permanent residents who are now practising polygamy in the country?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

First of all, I think the point you've just made is that the long-standing criminalization of polygamy in Canada points to the fact that it has been a phenomenon in Canada for some time. That point reminds us of Bountiful, British Columbia, and some other communities across the country. It is absolute proof of the fact that there is no racial or xenophobic aspect to this. Polygamy is a practice that can be found in Canada, among people born here who have been here for generations, as well as among newcomers.

Polygamy is legal, to one extent or another, in over 60 countries around the world, and there have been recorded cases of polygamy involving Christians, Muslims, and Hindus. Anyone from the opposition side who says that one group or another is being targeted by this is absolutely wrong, and any cultural community in Canada that makes that claim is wrong. We know from our consultations that most cultural communities, particularly women, welcome protection from polygamy, as they welcome protection from forced and early marriage. That is why they came to Canada.

Now, what does the bill do? It essentially says that instead of having to have a criminal conviction for polygamy—and we know there have been nine of those in over a hundred years, although there are some cases under way today—or a finding of misrepresentation, which is a very high threshold of administrative proof in our immigration system, we will now, instead of meeting those very onerous thresholds, simply have to have an immigration officer satisfied by the evidence before them as they examine the file that polygamy has been practised. That in itself would be grounds for removal, just as a finding that someone, after immigrating to Canada, has been convicted of murder in their home country or has been a génocidaire in Rwanda would be grounds for removal. Polygamy will now be similar grounds.

On your question of peace bonds, I should add that there are some orders the court could give that haven't yet been mentioned. The family could be ordered to refrain from making arrangements or agreements in relation to the marriage. They could also be ordered to participate in a family violence counselling program. There are some preventative aspects to a peace bond as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Aspin.

Ms. Mathyssen, go ahead.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister.

I have some questions in regard to the whole issue of polygamy. Now, it's very clear in the IRPA that polygamist couples are not admissible to Canada. You are suggesting that they do manage to get here. I wonder to what degree we have these situations in Canada. How many families in your study have managed to make it through the system?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

We do not have accurate statistics, obviously, about how many people have succeeded in misrepresenting themselves by coming to Canada as immigrants while in polygamous relationships, or have managed to immigrate along with multiple wives.

Talk to people who work in the sector, in settlement organizations. Talk to my colleagues. Having been in this position for less than two years, travelling the country, I have heard of dozens of cases that are proven.

They are of concern not only to those who have to give services to people in this situation, to the victims of polygamy, but also to cultural communities, because the vast majority of those who immigrate to this country follow the rules, know what is illegal, refrain from polygamy and forced marriage, and celebrate the protections we have in this country. When they see a member of their community living down the street who got away with bringing two or three wives here—one as the wife sponsored, another as the sister, as was claimed at the time, and a third as a parent sponsored under the parents and grandparents program, and there are such cases—they are scandalized that this was allowed to happen, and they would give evidence of the polygamist relationship if there was any hope of its having any consequences.

As of today, there has been no such hope. A criminal conviction for polygamy is a very high threshold. It is hard to do and hasn't been done lately. We are essentially asking those who benefit from the immigration system to help us keep polygamy out of it, and they will be able to do so.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

In those situations where polygamy is discovered is everybody deported?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Someone who is here as a citizen and is found to be in a polygamous relationship obviously could not be removed. Their citizenship could not be revoked. They would be facing criminal proceedings. We hope in the wake of the prosecutions now under way in Bountiful and the attention this issue is now getting, there will be more criminal prosecutions and convictions of Canadians born in this country and naturalized Canadians.

A permanent resident who is found by an immigration officer to be in a polygamous relationship will now, under the changes proposed in Bill S-7, be inadmissible to Canada. Yes, they will lose their permanent residence and be asked to leave and removed if they don't leave, as would anyone else who is found to be inadmissible to Canada after having been granted permanent resident status.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Do you have any concerns about the consequences? We've heard testimony that there are unintended consequences that could be very negative. For example, if a polygamous relationship is discovered, what about the children of that relationship if they are born in Canada? What happens in that situation?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

We have an extremely generous immigration system. We have an immigration system that takes account of family circumstances. It would be looked at on a case-by-case basis.

There are relief mechanisms that would allow individuals, women or children, to remain in Canada, just as in cases of family violence or domestic violence. We have gone to great lengths to ensure that women who are victims of such violence, even if they have been sponsored by their spouses, are able to maintain their immigration status in Canada even as the husband loses it and is removed from Canada. There are dozens of cases where recourse to that protection has been made, in recent years since the changes made by our government in that respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you very much for introducing such important measures.

Before I ask a couple of questions, Minister, I want to make it clear that I represent the most diversified riding, Calgary Northeast, and of course the hardest working as well. I know.

I want to make a comment on this title. When I hear that it is racist.... First of all, I have not heard from one single constituent that the title is racist. In my view as well, when we talk about forced marriage and child marriage, this is barbaric. You know that I'm an immigrant. In my motherland it is well known that they had the practice of child marriages and to an extent forced marriages as well. When I chose Canada, I chose for some reasons and I believe that the system is better than where I was.

I have a couple of questions. When you talked about introducing this bill, what information was known about the prevalence of forced and underage marriages in Canada? Does the Government of Canada provide any funding to organizations that help the victims?

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you so much for the question. Your riding is extremely diverse and a fantastic example of the strength of our diversity and of our immigration system.

As with polygamy, so with forced and underage marriages we do not have definitive statistics, obviously. These are practices that families and individuals go to great lengths to disguise as something else, to pretend are not happening. But in the case of one settlement organization in Toronto, which has already been mentioned today, there were more than 200 cases recorded over only two years just in the province of Ontario and just by one settlement organization.

The Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development has received 100 requests for consular assistance from Canadians related to forced marriage since 2009. These are people who went to the trouble of requesting assistance from a government department.

It is a serious issue. As you mentioned, it is widespread in certain parts of the world. I would draw everyone's attention to the website and the documentation put forward by Girls Not Brides. It's an important partner for Canada in the worldwide effort to stop forced marriage. The map they have showing child marriage by country shows it as an unfortunate phenomenon on every continent, but the highest absolute number of cases they can document is in India, actually. Given the population of India, that may not be surprising, but it has also been a public issue in that country, as it is elsewhere, and rightly so, because the vast majority of women and girls in India, as everywhere else, would dearly like to avoid this fate.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I'm sure you will have noticed that in India, even, there is now a lot of awareness of this issue and that many organizations are working on it, but you missed my question asking how much funding the government supplies to organizations.

[Chris Alexander, Conservative, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Yes, thank you for that.

I don't have exact information on all of the funding put forward by all departments to prevent forced and early marriage, to empower women and girls to speak up and speak out against the phenomenon of domestic violence and violence against women and girls. Let's just say that the funding has grown significantly under our government.

For example, Status of Women Canada has supported, with the Public Health Agency of Canada, a white ribbon campaign to develop a brief on engaging men and boys to prevent and reduce gender-based violence. There is a new website, launched two years ago by Status of Women Canada, called Ending Violence Against Women, with sections on the nature of violence, how to prevent it, where to help.

We have a number of well-funded initiatives against cyberbullying. The Department of Health, I would argue, has done even more, and the Department of Justice obviously has a vast agenda related to the changes we made to the criminal justice system related to the victims charter and to support for victims, all of which is relevant to the issue of violence against women and girls, including forced and early marriage.