Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 3rd, 2018

[Insp Jamie Solesme]

Yes. We try to keep the families together, and they're dealt with differently from individuals coming across.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Have we detained children beyond the day—

[Insp Jamie Solesme]

The children are with their parents, and they're kept in a different style of room so it's more of an interview during the interview process that takes place, then the transportation is facilitated over to CBSA. I wouldn't call it detention in the sense of the probable connotation of what detention is. They're with their parents while their parents go through the process. They're not taken or separated, and no undue harm is caused.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

This question is open to all. If we were to declare the entire border a port of entry, what would that look like in terms of people coming across? If people come across, do we physically arrest them, including children, including people who may be injured or disabled, and do we physically move them to the U.S.? I'm trying to get a picture of how that will look in an operational sense.

I know, Mr. Cloutier, you've expressed the concerns in terms of limitations, but I'm wondering so that people will get a picture of what that will look like.

[Jacques Cloutier]

Let us assume that we were to do exactly what you suggest and declare the entire border a port of entry. Upon crossing the border, they would then be in a customs controlled area, and they would then still have the obligation to present to an officer, both for customs and, if they are foreign nationals, for immigration purposes. You would have to be able to offer those services all along that border of 8,000 plus kilometres.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

From an operational point of view, how many personnel would it take, from the CBSA perspective and from the RCMP perspective? How many men and women in uniform are we talking about?

[Jacques Cloutier]

If I may, I would offer this. If you were to declare the southern border a port of entry, there would be no role for the RCMP at that point. In terms of assessing the number of people required in order to navigate that, I couldn't begin to ascertain what that number would look like.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Would it be above 10,000, above 20,000, above 30,000?

[Jacques Cloutier]

I'm in no position to assess this.

Across the country, land borders probably receive in the neighbourhood of 60 million travellers a year, so in the sense of everybody going to a port, you would have to be able to replicate that level of service across—

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Cloutier, when somebody comes in, it's not as though we can just take them back to the U.S. border or prevent them from coming in. We have to allow them in.

[Jacques Cloutier]

Do you mean under the current model?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Under a model where we have the entire border deemed to be a port of entry.

[Jacques Cloutier]

Entry into any country is governed by the decisions of that country. IRCC establishes the requirements to enter into our country.

From our perspective, it is an issue of customs. We would have to be able to screen people and not bring into Canada goods that represent a risk to Canadians. For foreign nationals, we are responsible for administering IRPA at the ports.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Even if we designate the entire border—and Mr. MacDonald, maybe you can jump in—would it be a violation of our international obligations if we were not to process their claim for asylum and have them actually physically sent back to the U.S.? I'm trying to get a picture of what that's going to look like.

[Mike MacDonald]

Simply speaking, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid that's your five minutes.

Mr. Maguire.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sharing my time with my colleague, Mr. Tilson.

I want to finish up with what I was looking at. There have been a lot of media reports about CBSA front-line people being very concerned about the so-called irregular border crossings.

I want to ask about two things.

First of all, would they allow some of the CBSA border officers to come before our committee as witnesses?

[Jacques Cloutier]

I am very much under the understanding that any committee has the full right to call the witnesses it would like to bring forward, and I would certainly not stand in the way of honouring those wishes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

Just for information, can you table with the committee some of the formal or informal complaints and concerns that you may have already received from some of the front-line CBSA officers? It may mean that we wouldn't have to have them come before us.

[Jacques Cloutier]

I will certainly go back and look at whether we have received such complaints, formal or informal. And yes, that being the case, I would certainly be in a position to indicate to you how many.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

The number would be nice, but I wonder if you could actually just table for us some of the complaints themselves, so that we know what they are.

[Jacques Cloutier]

Mr. Chair, it would very much depend on the nature of the complaint and the elements involved in the complaint, from a privacy perspective. Depending on what the process is, I would be happy to look at what we may have. I am not aware of anything formally lodged within the organization specific to irregular migration.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'll pass it over to my colleague.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. MacDonald, it's my understanding that the safe third country agreement does not apply to illegal crossings. Am I correct?

[Mike MacDonald]

It does not apply to those who cross between the ports of entry.